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Frank Kibler Recording 1
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Frank Kibler - Nampa’s People_1
DICK CLAIBORNE: June 28th, and this is Dick Claiborne talking to Frank Kibler. We’re going to ask you a few questions, Frank, concerning your life in Nampa. First thing, can you kind of give us a recount of when you came to Nampa, where you came from, what your folks did and what their ancestry was?
FRANK KIBLER: Dick, I came to Nampa in 1907 when I was two years old. I was born in Ontario, Oregon. My father ran a hotel there, and they came to Nampa in 1907 because they built a new hotel in Ontario. So, I don’t remember too much about Nampa until the fire of 1909. And I remember the fire because my mother held me up in her arms, and we lived over on the [00:01:00] north side, and I could see smoke and the railroad trains bringing in fire engines and everything for that fire, which was a terrific, terrific thing in a little boy’s mind. At that time, we lived over on 14th Avenue North. My father had a cigar store on 13th Avenue and Front Street. And that was completely demolished and burned in the fire, and we lost all of our worldly possessions. Insurance in those days was almost unheard of, so there wasn’t any. After that, the Dewey-Davis Estate built a series of buildings on Front Street and they were occupied in the order, as I remember them, the Antone-Selinky Saloon, the Oregon lunch, the OSL barber shop, the Nebraska Lunch, [00:02:00] Major cigar store, and the Crystal Bison Coal Company, which was operated by a man by the name of Harry Young. Our restaurant that my parents run was called the Oregon Lunch. It stayed open 24 hours a day and my folks ran that restaurant for 10 years, day and night. Their business was primarily with the railroad, and they fed the railroad men. And in those days, Nampa had quite a railroad center. There was lots of transcontinental trains going through, which she was our principal means to getting in and out of the country and getting places. It would stop here, and I can remember my mother being out on the [00:03:00] corner of Front Street pretty close the depo ringing a gong to attract people over to get coffee and ham sandwiches. The train stopped for about 15 or 20 minutes. They were no diesel engines in those days, there was a lot of smoke. And we used to have a big coal chute down on 14th Avenue where those engines would refill with coal. We had a water tank down on Front Street where they refilled with water, and away they went, smoke and all. But there was a lot of trains in that in those days. And they used to have a pony train that when the transcontinental train stopped here, this pony train would take people to Boise. And that was the means of transportation to Boise, except the streetcar when it came along. And then, [00:04:00] we had round the loop deal, eventually, that ran, I think, 60 miles. Next question.
DICK: Frank, it’s curious. Now you say your mother rang a bell. Was this common, these trains that hit towns like Nampa, and there’s no food on the trains?
FRANK: She was right out there ringing the bell to attract the people over our restaurant for the ham sandwiches or whatever they could get in the 15 or 20 minutes those trains were here, whether or not the trains had dining cars. I doubt it at that time, or if they did, it’s too expensive and people’d rather come over and get a sandwich.
DICK: Now was there a lot of restaurant people that did this or just...
FRANK: Just the two on Front Street. We were the only two. The Oregon Lunch, they [00:05:00] came from Oregon. The Nebraska Lunch, those people came from Nebraska. And between us was the OSL barber shop. The railroad men patronized that. Some of those men were barbers in Nampa for many years. It was a man by the name of Ed Reby, Ed McMahon and I can’t remember the other names off-hand, but those men catered to the railroad people. You got a shave, a haircut, and a bath for 50 cents. At our restaurant, you got a full dinner for 25 cents. On Sunday, it was 35 cents.
DICK: Now, you say you came to Nampa in 1907.
FRANK: Nineteen seven.
DICK: And how old were you?
FRANK: Two.
DICK: Two. So, in other words in 1909, you were just four years old.
FRANK: Right.
DICK: Now there’s another thing you mentioned that the Dewey Estate built buildings. [00:06:00]
FRANK: They built buildings on Front Street.
DICK: Then everybody rented them?
FRANK: And people rented those buildings.
DICK: That’s because your father was burned out?
FRANK: My father had burned out down the street about a half a block and those ruins were there for many years. And now it’s parking area.
DICK: But so, the Dewey then, actually kind of rebuilt the town by putting those buildings in there and renting them.
FRANK: They did. They did.
DICK: Was the ground bare where they built, or they build on some ruins?
FRANK: No, they built on the ruins of the fire. They just cleaned it up.
DICK: Did they own the buildings that burned? Or did they buy the ground?
FRANK: I don't know who owned them, the original buildings, nor do I know what they looked like. But I remember the restaurant very well. The bathroom facilities were outside. When you used them, you sat [00:07:00] on it and the water ran. And there was four of them, one for each building. And they were marked.
DICK: Well, now, is this water simply -- I assume Nampa didn’t have a pressure system.
FRANK: The water was furnished by the Dewey Hotel people.
DICK: They just have a gravity-flow tank?
FRANK: No, they had a water tank. And that water tank furnished the entire business. And you paid the Dewey people for the city water, all the downtown area.
DICK: Was it a pressurized tank or was it a gravity flow?
FRANK: I don’t remember. It was a big water tank. Nampa had two more at one time.
DICK: Okay, well, I think it might have been a gravity flow.
FRANK: It might have been gravity flow. And that those tanks furnished the pressure.
DICK: Well, now was the Dewey Palace, was it in existence? It would have been in existence [00:08:00] at that time.
FRANK: It was in existence when I came, yes.
DICK: Do you remember anything about it, about the activities that went on? Was it a cultural complex or?
FRANK: The first thing I remember about the Dewey Palace was that they had the telephone office in one of the buildings. They had a confectionery place with ice cream and so forth on the corner. Then, that corner subsequently became the Stockmens National Bank. Some people came in from Burns, Oregon, and formed the Stockmens Bank. Eventually the Stockmens Bank moved to the present library building. Then the Stockmens [00:09:00] Bank became the First Security Bank. But before the Stockmens Bank moved, in that building, was the First National Bank of Nampa. The First National Bank of Nampa failed. And then I think after that failure, I think the poor old stockholders in that bank had to pay off under the banking laws that time. And I think the depositors got about six cents on the dollar. And I remember the men that ran the bank, I remember when it failed because I was one of the last persons to make a deposit from my dad’s grocery store that he was running at that time, in the 1920s. And the First Security came in, [00:10:00] Stockmens went there first, and then the First Security came in. And it subsequently moved to where it is now.
DICK: When now, the Idaho First National Bank of Nampa. When that failed, was that quite a blow to Nampa?
FRANK: No, it wasn’t the Idaho First at the First National Bank at Nampa. It was a state bank.
DICK: Was that quite an economic blast?
FRANK: Yes, it was. Real serious at that time.
DICK: Was it locally owned?
FRANK: Yes.
DICK: Did you ever get any of your money back?
FRANK: Yes. We got about 50 cents on the dollar back.
DICK: Which in those days was probably quite a blow. Frank, now you came here in 1907 and lived here. And Alexander Duffes, theoretically, settled the town are created in 1885. Did you know Mr. Duffes?
FRANK: No. I knew his [00:11:00] son. We used to call him Pick Duffes.
DICK: You didn’t know (inaudible).
FRANK: I didn’t know Alexander Duffes.
DICK: Well, you’re around here then, in 1910, going into the 1920s. What was it like in Nampa during World War I? Did a lot of the younger men leave?
FRANK: Yes, most of the younger people went off to war. A lot of them were in the National Guard. A lot of enlisted in the Army. And we had two lawyers that left that I remember. One of them was Frank Esterbrook, the other was George Vandesty. George Vandesty, in World War I, was attached to the staff of one of the generals in France. Frank Westerberg was also in France. And he was a trainer in some machinegun [00:12:00] company or something over there, and both of them got back. There was another man who was an officer by the name of Claude Duvall, and he came back. And I remember when those soldiers got off the train when they came back from France. And the rumor was on the depot platform that some of them were going to kill one of these fellas. And I think it was Duvall, but I’m not sure.
DICK: Was this because of something he’d done to them?
FRANK: Something he’d done, or some trouble they’d had, I don’t know what it was.
DICK: I take it, it didn’t transpire.
FRANK: No. He subsequently secretary of the Dewey-Davis Estate.
DICK: Along in here, the war of 1917, 1918, you’re 10 years old. What was Nampa like? I assume there wasn’t much but Front Street and maybe what we know of as 11th Street?
FRANK: Front Street and Main Street. And there’s [00:13:00] quite a lot on Main Street at that time. And Second Street was where you and I are sitting in my office, it used to be a tennis court. And down the street was a big boarding house where most of the schoolteachers stayed. I think that’s where the beauty parlor building is. And all of it was residential section where it’s now business, except Main and Front Street. Front Street was the principal street at that time, and Main Street had the banks and a few stores.
DICK: Well, now, along 1917, I don’t suppose there’s many automobiles in Nampa in that time, still a lot of horses around?
FRANK: There were some automobiles. And they had [00:14:00] a lot of places where you could tie up your horse and buggy.
DICK: Now, you lived over on the north side?
FRANK: First when we came to Nampa, we lived in a house called the Griswold House, which is where the Masonic temple is built, now.
DICK: That would be 11th and Fourth, then.
FRANK: Yes, on 11th and Third, I think, between Third and Fourth. And that house was tore down. But I remember, I had my picture little kid taken by a little tiny pine tree which grew up to be a big one before the house was removed.
DICK: Frank, now, where’d you go to school? You lived there, where would you have gone to, Kenwood?
FRANK: I went to Kenwood School. At that time, we lived in a two-story house on 12th Avenue South, where there’s now business. And I had about a block and a half walk [00:15:00] to Kenwood School. I started there in the first grade. The high school was also in the same building, out there.
DICK: Kenwood, was originally then, about the only school?
FRANK: Yes, on the south side.
DICK: Then was east side, also?
FRANK: No, no other school on the south side. There was Lakeview on the north side.
DICK: Lakeview, excuse me. Well, I would assume that Kenwood in its heyday, when it first started, was probably on the very outskirts of town.
FRANK: Just about.
DICK: Did it seem like the town must have been condensed, now? When did they start actively paving streets?
FRANK: As I recall it, Front Street was the first street that was ever paved in Nampa. Main Street followed.
DICK: Main Street, that’s what we now call First Street.
FRANK: First Street.
DICK: You got any idea that timeframe when these streets were paved?
FRANK: No.
DICK: Now, [00:16:00] a little bit about your history and through there, you finished high school when?
FRANK: Either 1922 or 1923. But I didn’t graduate from Nampa High, I had to finish it through Eastern University.
DICK: Now, you got out of high school, you’re 18, 19, what were the young people doing in Nampa in that era? Were they staying? Were they having to leave? Were there any jobs after the war there and things are booming a little bit?
FRANK: Well, my activities as a young person was all church connected. At 16 years old, I made platforms (inaudible) Sunday School of the Christian Church, which was then on 13th and Fourth. And [00:17:00] when I was 17, I became superintendent and we builded that to a very large attendance with an average of 500 to 1,000 a Sunday. How we got them in the building, I’ll never know.
DICK: Was it pretty much the same with the other young people? Was the church your activity?
FRANK: The church was our activity. There was no radio. There was no TV. But we didn’t have phonographs.
DICK: Where the young people able to stay in Nampa and live? Could they get jobs, or farm?
FRANK: I thought so.
DICK: Pretty much able to stay?
FRANK: Yeah.
DICK: We may have passed over a little bit. Would you tell me, you mentioned anecdotes about the Chinese. Would you kind of recount where they were located, what they did?
FRANK: The Chinese people were generally located on what we call Wall Street, [00:18:00] which was an alley between First Street and Front Street. They had a series of buildings there. They had a Chinese laundry, a Chinese store, and the Chinese something else, and four or five different kinds of businesses in there. Also, there were Chinese restaurants. I can remember two in those days. And those Chinese restaurants were quite busy. And they served different than they do now. The great dish in those days was Chinese noodles, pork or chicken.
DICK: what did the normal populace think of the Chinese? Were they accepted or were they looked down on?
FRANK: They did a lot of business.
DICK: Were [00:19:00] they accepted outside of their own element?
FRANK: The Chinese in those days, some were different than others. We had some of the older Chinese men that were here, they still wore their long queues, and they’d wear their black robes, or whatever they had. A lot of them spent a lot of time, there were actually tunnels between some of those buildings leading out, and they had sort of dirt rooms with curtains around them, a lot of opium smoking with the older Chinese men that went on there. I’ve been in the tunnels.
DICK: That was my next question. I’ve heard of these tunnels. Were you in them when they were still actively being used or at a later day?
FRANK: Yes, I went in them. Nobody recognized me because they were too stupid with dope.
DICK: Is that all they were used for? [00:20:00] There are all kinds of stories.
FRANK: As far as I know. As far as I know.
DICK: Was it just tunnels dug in the dirt, and they’d go down there and smoke opium?
FRANK: Right. And we got in by sneaking in.
DICK: What would have happened if you got caught?
FRANK: We never worked that out. We didn’t worry about it. See, we had a group of kids that were raised down on Front Street when my folks were in the restaurant. In other words, I could say, as a little kid, I originally grew up on Front Street. And we had a family down on 14th called the Purdys, and there was three kids in that family, two girls and a boy. And they had a house down there built by the railroad. One end of it, the family lived in, the other end, [00:21:00] they had a battery charging station for the trains, I imagine the headlights. And that was quite an operation. Then, across the street, just over the tracks on the north side was another house where a family by the name of Pittman lived. And Pittman was connected with the railroad. Then down the street, on 13th on the railroad side, we had a dispatcher’s office which is now torn down. And in between the dispatcher’s office, the Purdie’s had a big water tank, sort of a flat one, that the railroad had to use for water for their engines to make steam. And I remember, then, across the street, we had a Harris family that moved in and had started a rooming house there [00:22:00] at that time. And Frank Harris and his sister, Winifred still live here in Nampa. Winifred is Winifred Cook.
DICK: Cook sheetman?
FRANK: Yes.
DICK: Iron work. That’s interesting. Frank, now, today we’ve got North Nampa and South Nampa, and there’s a kind of a stigmatism with North Nampa because it’s more or less white.
FRANK: In the early days, Dave, most of the prominent people had homes built on the north side of Nampa on Ninth Avenue and Third Street, close to the Lockman Home. That’s where most of your prominent people lived, in those days. Some of those old houses are still there.
DICK: In other words, the north and south, that one time, [00:23:00] the north side was the place to be.
FRANK: Yes, that’s right.
DICK: It’s just evolution pushed it on the south side, because that’s the way we grew. That’s interesting Back to those Chinese tunnels, Frank, was it common for the kids to sneak in like you did?
FRANK: It was common for us because that’s where we lived. We know how to get in. The rest, I don’t think very many kids got in there.
DICK: But you’ve actually been down in there when they were in use?
FRANK: Yes.
DICK: Like I’ve said, I’ve always heard stories, but apparently, they’re just what we call an opium den, then. That’s all that was down there.
FRANK: Well, you never saw a lot of people in there. There’d be one or two old men, and they’d be asleep, and they’d have the big, long pipes that they smoked.
DICK: But there was no elaborate furnishings or anything down there, just dirt?
FRANK: Just dirt and a cot, or some sort of a bed. To actually describe it, I can’t remember what [00:24:00] it looked like.
DICK: Well, Frank, there’s one other anecdote that I’ve heard you tell and so forth. Recount your collecting the money for war bonds during World War I.
FRANK: Well, the first Boy Scout was formed at the Baptist Church when I was 12 years old. We had a man here in the real estate business by the name of R. G. Windler. And there was a pharmacist by the name of Ford. Mr. Winslow had a family of all girls. So, he was interested in doing something for boys and he became our first scoutmaster. And when I was 12 years old, I had mastered a deal of tying knots in the things, and I had my tenderfoot badge. [00:25:00] And one day, during World War I, the President Woodrow Wilson came out and said any boy that sold so many bonds one day would get a letter from the White House and a medal. So, we started out to do that. There was only another boy and I that tried for it. And his name was Raymond Broomfield. His dad at that time the Secretary at the Dewey-Davis estate. His connection was with all the businessmen. So, he had his quota very fast. When his quota was met, I had a short part of mine. So, there used to be what we call a house of ill repute down on Front Street called The 101 Plot. And I used to sell to the cook down there [00:26:00] frog legs. I caught them out by the old ice plant, in a special place with a fishing rod, hooked a little piece of red flannel on it. And those people liked frog legs, and I sold them to her. So, I was desperate. I knocked on the door and asked for the manager. The manager came and said, “Oh, you’re the boy that sells us frog legs.” And I told him what I was doing. And he said, “Well, you sit down on the step.” I never got in the place. I sat down on the step; they brought a wad of money out. I needed a little more. And this money, as I remembered, I stuffed in my Boy Scout suit. [00:27:00] I have a picture of that suit out in the front room in my office. And it was a lot of it in 1,000 bills. I don’t play those people believed in putting money in the bank at that time. And I thought, well, I had good luck here, so I know where another of these places is. I’d never been there. And if I had told the business that that was over, the bank teller would shudder, so I’m not going to tell that. But I went and knocked on that door. And I got the rest of my money, and I took it down to the bank. And I went into the banker, where my folks had dealt for years. He said, “Where’d you get it?” And I said, “Well, you know that place I’ve seen you at?” And he never asked anymore questions [00:28:00] and took money, and the bonds were payable to bearer, and I got all the bonds, and I took them back and delivered them. And I got the letter from the White House, signed by Woodrow Wilson. And I got the medal. When I was in school some girl talked me out of it and I hadn’t seen it since and the girl left town.
DICK: How much money did you collect?
FRANK: I think about 50,000 dollars.
DICK: They just handed you 50,000.
FRANK: Well, I got it in several pieces. (break in audio)
DICK: Well, that was interesting, Frank. Now you’ve also mentioned in the past what you did is a child, the Chinese and the laundry and so forth, what’s some of the things you did?
FRANK: Oh, some of us, there used to be what was called the [00:29:00] Troy Laundry over on 13th Avenue. The was operated by a very prominent businessman by the name of L. L. Gray, who was a leader in Nampa for many years until he died. A very fine man. He ran the Troy Laundry. Practically behind his laundry was the Chinese laundry. The Chinese Laundry had their wires to hang clothes up on, up on the roof. So, some of my friends and I decided that it would be fun to cut their clotheslines. And we did that a couple of times and the clothes fell on the tar roof and got dirty, and the poor Chinese laundrymen had to do them over. So, one time, [00:30:00] we got caught. But before that, who got the blame for cutting the clothesline? L. L. Gray’s son, whose name was Joh. They got the blame for it. But when we got, we were chased down the street with either butcher knives, or meat cleavers, or something. And we outran them. But we never cut any more clotheslines.
DICK: Was it common for others to pull pranks on the Chinese? Or was it just you guys?
FRANK: No. No, not really.
DICK: Where did the Chinese live? Did they pretty much live in their shops?
FRANK: They lived in their shops and the basements they had. And as far as I know, they didn’t live in residential buildings at that time. They do now. Not then.
DICK: Along in 1920, 1921, [00:31:00] was there any Spanish element in town? Or was this a later, the farming?
FRANK: Not to speak of.
DICK: What was the population made up, then? A little bit of everything?
FRANK: Yes.
(break in audio)
DICK: What was the politics in Nampa in 1920? Were they active in politics?
FRANK: Oh, I don’t remember. In 1920, I’d have just been 15 years old, Dave. And I don’t remember a great deal about political activities in those days. A little later, yes. But I remember in the 1920s, my father and I were operating what was called the Original North Side Grocery, over on the north side, he was the owner, and I was the worker, delivering man, with a Model T [00:32:00] truck, and I delivered the groceries.
END OF AUDIO FILE
DICK CLAIBORNE: June 28th, and this is Dick Claiborne talking to Frank Kibler. We’re going to ask you a few questions, Frank, concerning your life in Nampa. First thing, can you kind of give us a recount of when you came to Nampa, where you came from, what your folks did and what their ancestry was?
FRANK KIBLER: Dick, I came to Nampa in 1907 when I was two years old. I was born in Ontario, Oregon. My father ran a hotel there, and they came to Nampa in 1907 because they built a new hotel in Ontario. So, I don’t remember too much about Nampa until the fire of 1909. And I remember the fire because my mother held me up in her arms, and we lived over on the [00:01:00] north side, and I could see smoke and the railroad trains bringing in fire engines and everything for that fire, which was a terrific, terrific thing in a little boy’s mind. At that time, we lived over on 14th Avenue North. My father had a cigar store on 13th Avenue and Front Street. And that was completely demolished and burned in the fire, and we lost all of our worldly possessions. Insurance in those days was almost unheard of, so there wasn’t any. After that, the Dewey-Davis Estate built a series of buildings on Front Street and they were occupied in the order, as I remember them, the Antone-Selinky Saloon, the Oregon lunch, the OSL barber shop, the Nebraska Lunch, [00:02:00] Major cigar store, and the Crystal Bison Coal Company, which was operated by a man by the name of Harry Young. Our restaurant that my parents run was called the Oregon Lunch. It stayed open 24 hours a day and my folks ran that restaurant for 10 years, day and night. Their business was primarily with the railroad, and they fed the railroad men. And in those days, Nampa had quite a railroad center. There was lots of transcontinental trains going through, which she was our principal means to getting in and out of the country and getting places. It would stop here, and I can remember my mother being out on the [00:03:00] corner of Front Street pretty close the depo ringing a gong to attract people over to get coffee and ham sandwiches. The train stopped for about 15 or 20 minutes. They were no diesel engines in those days, there was a lot of smoke. And we used to have a big coal chute down on 14th Avenue where those engines would refill with coal. We had a water tank down on Front Street where they refilled with water, and away they went, smoke and all. But there was a lot of trains in that in those days. And they used to have a pony train that when the transcontinental train stopped here, this pony train would take people to Boise. And that was the means of transportation to Boise, except the streetcar when it came along. And then, [00:04:00] we had round the loop deal, eventually, that ran, I think, 60 miles. Next question.
DICK: Frank, it’s curious. Now you say your mother rang a bell. Was this common, these trains that hit towns like Nampa, and there’s no food on the trains?
FRANK: She was right out there ringing the bell to attract the people over our restaurant for the ham sandwiches or whatever they could get in the 15 or 20 minutes those trains were here, whether or not the trains had dining cars. I doubt it at that time, or if they did, it’s too expensive and people’d rather come over and get a sandwich.
DICK: Now was there a lot of restaurant people that did this or just...
FRANK: Just the two on Front Street. We were the only two. The Oregon Lunch, they [00:05:00] came from Oregon. The Nebraska Lunch, those people came from Nebraska. And between us was the OSL barber shop. The railroad men patronized that. Some of those men were barbers in Nampa for many years. It was a man by the name of Ed Reby, Ed McMahon and I can’t remember the other names off-hand, but those men catered to the railroad people. You got a shave, a haircut, and a bath for 50 cents. At our restaurant, you got a full dinner for 25 cents. On Sunday, it was 35 cents.
DICK: Now, you say you came to Nampa in 1907.
FRANK: Nineteen seven.
DICK: And how old were you?
FRANK: Two.
DICK: Two. So, in other words in 1909, you were just four years old.
FRANK: Right.
DICK: Now there’s another thing you mentioned that the Dewey Estate built buildings. [00:06:00]
FRANK: They built buildings on Front Street.
DICK: Then everybody rented them?
FRANK: And people rented those buildings.
DICK: That’s because your father was burned out?
FRANK: My father had burned out down the street about a half a block and those ruins were there for many years. And now it’s parking area.
DICK: But so, the Dewey then, actually kind of rebuilt the town by putting those buildings in there and renting them.
FRANK: They did. They did.
DICK: Was the ground bare where they built, or they build on some ruins?
FRANK: No, they built on the ruins of the fire. They just cleaned it up.
DICK: Did they own the buildings that burned? Or did they buy the ground?
FRANK: I don't know who owned them, the original buildings, nor do I know what they looked like. But I remember the restaurant very well. The bathroom facilities were outside. When you used them, you sat [00:07:00] on it and the water ran. And there was four of them, one for each building. And they were marked.
DICK: Well, now, is this water simply -- I assume Nampa didn’t have a pressure system.
FRANK: The water was furnished by the Dewey Hotel people.
DICK: They just have a gravity-flow tank?
FRANK: No, they had a water tank. And that water tank furnished the entire business. And you paid the Dewey people for the city water, all the downtown area.
DICK: Was it a pressurized tank or was it a gravity flow?
FRANK: I don’t remember. It was a big water tank. Nampa had two more at one time.
DICK: Okay, well, I think it might have been a gravity flow.
FRANK: It might have been gravity flow. And that those tanks furnished the pressure.
DICK: Well, now was the Dewey Palace, was it in existence? It would have been in existence [00:08:00] at that time.
FRANK: It was in existence when I came, yes.
DICK: Do you remember anything about it, about the activities that went on? Was it a cultural complex or?
FRANK: The first thing I remember about the Dewey Palace was that they had the telephone office in one of the buildings. They had a confectionery place with ice cream and so forth on the corner. Then, that corner subsequently became the Stockmens National Bank. Some people came in from Burns, Oregon, and formed the Stockmens Bank. Eventually the Stockmens Bank moved to the present library building. Then the Stockmens [00:09:00] Bank became the First Security Bank. But before the Stockmens Bank moved, in that building, was the First National Bank of Nampa. The First National Bank of Nampa failed. And then I think after that failure, I think the poor old stockholders in that bank had to pay off under the banking laws that time. And I think the depositors got about six cents on the dollar. And I remember the men that ran the bank, I remember when it failed because I was one of the last persons to make a deposit from my dad’s grocery store that he was running at that time, in the 1920s. And the First Security came in, [00:10:00] Stockmens went there first, and then the First Security came in. And it subsequently moved to where it is now.
DICK: When now, the Idaho First National Bank of Nampa. When that failed, was that quite a blow to Nampa?
FRANK: No, it wasn’t the Idaho First at the First National Bank at Nampa. It was a state bank.
DICK: Was that quite an economic blast?
FRANK: Yes, it was. Real serious at that time.
DICK: Was it locally owned?
FRANK: Yes.
DICK: Did you ever get any of your money back?
FRANK: Yes. We got about 50 cents on the dollar back.
DICK: Which in those days was probably quite a blow. Frank, now you came here in 1907 and lived here. And Alexander Duffes, theoretically, settled the town are created in 1885. Did you know Mr. Duffes?
FRANK: No. I knew his [00:11:00] son. We used to call him Pick Duffes.
DICK: You didn’t know (inaudible).
FRANK: I didn’t know Alexander Duffes.
DICK: Well, you’re around here then, in 1910, going into the 1920s. What was it like in Nampa during World War I? Did a lot of the younger men leave?
FRANK: Yes, most of the younger people went off to war. A lot of them were in the National Guard. A lot of enlisted in the Army. And we had two lawyers that left that I remember. One of them was Frank Esterbrook, the other was George Vandesty. George Vandesty, in World War I, was attached to the staff of one of the generals in France. Frank Westerberg was also in France. And he was a trainer in some machinegun [00:12:00] company or something over there, and both of them got back. There was another man who was an officer by the name of Claude Duvall, and he came back. And I remember when those soldiers got off the train when they came back from France. And the rumor was on the depot platform that some of them were going to kill one of these fellas. And I think it was Duvall, but I’m not sure.
DICK: Was this because of something he’d done to them?
FRANK: Something he’d done, or some trouble they’d had, I don’t know what it was.
DICK: I take it, it didn’t transpire.
FRANK: No. He subsequently secretary of the Dewey-Davis Estate.
DICK: Along in here, the war of 1917, 1918, you’re 10 years old. What was Nampa like? I assume there wasn’t much but Front Street and maybe what we know of as 11th Street?
FRANK: Front Street and Main Street. And there’s [00:13:00] quite a lot on Main Street at that time. And Second Street was where you and I are sitting in my office, it used to be a tennis court. And down the street was a big boarding house where most of the schoolteachers stayed. I think that’s where the beauty parlor building is. And all of it was residential section where it’s now business, except Main and Front Street. Front Street was the principal street at that time, and Main Street had the banks and a few stores.
DICK: Well, now, along 1917, I don’t suppose there’s many automobiles in Nampa in that time, still a lot of horses around?
FRANK: There were some automobiles. And they had [00:14:00] a lot of places where you could tie up your horse and buggy.
DICK: Now, you lived over on the north side?
FRANK: First when we came to Nampa, we lived in a house called the Griswold House, which is where the Masonic temple is built, now.
DICK: That would be 11th and Fourth, then.
FRANK: Yes, on 11th and Third, I think, between Third and Fourth. And that house was tore down. But I remember, I had my picture little kid taken by a little tiny pine tree which grew up to be a big one before the house was removed.
DICK: Frank, now, where’d you go to school? You lived there, where would you have gone to, Kenwood?
FRANK: I went to Kenwood School. At that time, we lived in a two-story house on 12th Avenue South, where there’s now business. And I had about a block and a half walk [00:15:00] to Kenwood School. I started there in the first grade. The high school was also in the same building, out there.
DICK: Kenwood, was originally then, about the only school?
FRANK: Yes, on the south side.
DICK: Then was east side, also?
FRANK: No, no other school on the south side. There was Lakeview on the north side.
DICK: Lakeview, excuse me. Well, I would assume that Kenwood in its heyday, when it first started, was probably on the very outskirts of town.
FRANK: Just about.
DICK: Did it seem like the town must have been condensed, now? When did they start actively paving streets?
FRANK: As I recall it, Front Street was the first street that was ever paved in Nampa. Main Street followed.
DICK: Main Street, that’s what we now call First Street.
FRANK: First Street.
DICK: You got any idea that timeframe when these streets were paved?
FRANK: No.
DICK: Now, [00:16:00] a little bit about your history and through there, you finished high school when?
FRANK: Either 1922 or 1923. But I didn’t graduate from Nampa High, I had to finish it through Eastern University.
DICK: Now, you got out of high school, you’re 18, 19, what were the young people doing in Nampa in that era? Were they staying? Were they having to leave? Were there any jobs after the war there and things are booming a little bit?
FRANK: Well, my activities as a young person was all church connected. At 16 years old, I made platforms (inaudible) Sunday School of the Christian Church, which was then on 13th and Fourth. And [00:17:00] when I was 17, I became superintendent and we builded that to a very large attendance with an average of 500 to 1,000 a Sunday. How we got them in the building, I’ll never know.
DICK: Was it pretty much the same with the other young people? Was the church your activity?
FRANK: The church was our activity. There was no radio. There was no TV. But we didn’t have phonographs.
DICK: Where the young people able to stay in Nampa and live? Could they get jobs, or farm?
FRANK: I thought so.
DICK: Pretty much able to stay?
FRANK: Yeah.
DICK: We may have passed over a little bit. Would you tell me, you mentioned anecdotes about the Chinese. Would you kind of recount where they were located, what they did?
FRANK: The Chinese people were generally located on what we call Wall Street, [00:18:00] which was an alley between First Street and Front Street. They had a series of buildings there. They had a Chinese laundry, a Chinese store, and the Chinese something else, and four or five different kinds of businesses in there. Also, there were Chinese restaurants. I can remember two in those days. And those Chinese restaurants were quite busy. And they served different than they do now. The great dish in those days was Chinese noodles, pork or chicken.
DICK: what did the normal populace think of the Chinese? Were they accepted or were they looked down on?
FRANK: They did a lot of business.
DICK: Were [00:19:00] they accepted outside of their own element?
FRANK: The Chinese in those days, some were different than others. We had some of the older Chinese men that were here, they still wore their long queues, and they’d wear their black robes, or whatever they had. A lot of them spent a lot of time, there were actually tunnels between some of those buildings leading out, and they had sort of dirt rooms with curtains around them, a lot of opium smoking with the older Chinese men that went on there. I’ve been in the tunnels.
DICK: That was my next question. I’ve heard of these tunnels. Were you in them when they were still actively being used or at a later day?
FRANK: Yes, I went in them. Nobody recognized me because they were too stupid with dope.
DICK: Is that all they were used for? [00:20:00] There are all kinds of stories.
FRANK: As far as I know. As far as I know.
DICK: Was it just tunnels dug in the dirt, and they’d go down there and smoke opium?
FRANK: Right. And we got in by sneaking in.
DICK: What would have happened if you got caught?
FRANK: We never worked that out. We didn’t worry about it. See, we had a group of kids that were raised down on Front Street when my folks were in the restaurant. In other words, I could say, as a little kid, I originally grew up on Front Street. And we had a family down on 14th called the Purdys, and there was three kids in that family, two girls and a boy. And they had a house down there built by the railroad. One end of it, the family lived in, the other end, [00:21:00] they had a battery charging station for the trains, I imagine the headlights. And that was quite an operation. Then, across the street, just over the tracks on the north side was another house where a family by the name of Pittman lived. And Pittman was connected with the railroad. Then down the street, on 13th on the railroad side, we had a dispatcher’s office which is now torn down. And in between the dispatcher’s office, the Purdie’s had a big water tank, sort of a flat one, that the railroad had to use for water for their engines to make steam. And I remember, then, across the street, we had a Harris family that moved in and had started a rooming house there [00:22:00] at that time. And Frank Harris and his sister, Winifred still live here in Nampa. Winifred is Winifred Cook.
DICK: Cook sheetman?
FRANK: Yes.
DICK: Iron work. That’s interesting. Frank, now, today we’ve got North Nampa and South Nampa, and there’s a kind of a stigmatism with North Nampa because it’s more or less white.
FRANK: In the early days, Dave, most of the prominent people had homes built on the north side of Nampa on Ninth Avenue and Third Street, close to the Lockman Home. That’s where most of your prominent people lived, in those days. Some of those old houses are still there.
DICK: In other words, the north and south, that one time, [00:23:00] the north side was the place to be.
FRANK: Yes, that’s right.
DICK: It’s just evolution pushed it on the south side, because that’s the way we grew. That’s interesting Back to those Chinese tunnels, Frank, was it common for the kids to sneak in like you did?
FRANK: It was common for us because that’s where we lived. We know how to get in. The rest, I don’t think very many kids got in there.
DICK: But you’ve actually been down in there when they were in use?
FRANK: Yes.
DICK: Like I’ve said, I’ve always heard stories, but apparently, they’re just what we call an opium den, then. That’s all that was down there.
FRANK: Well, you never saw a lot of people in there. There’d be one or two old men, and they’d be asleep, and they’d have the big, long pipes that they smoked.
DICK: But there was no elaborate furnishings or anything down there, just dirt?
FRANK: Just dirt and a cot, or some sort of a bed. To actually describe it, I can’t remember what [00:24:00] it looked like.
DICK: Well, Frank, there’s one other anecdote that I’ve heard you tell and so forth. Recount your collecting the money for war bonds during World War I.
FRANK: Well, the first Boy Scout was formed at the Baptist Church when I was 12 years old. We had a man here in the real estate business by the name of R. G. Windler. And there was a pharmacist by the name of Ford. Mr. Winslow had a family of all girls. So, he was interested in doing something for boys and he became our first scoutmaster. And when I was 12 years old, I had mastered a deal of tying knots in the things, and I had my tenderfoot badge. [00:25:00] And one day, during World War I, the President Woodrow Wilson came out and said any boy that sold so many bonds one day would get a letter from the White House and a medal. So, we started out to do that. There was only another boy and I that tried for it. And his name was Raymond Broomfield. His dad at that time the Secretary at the Dewey-Davis estate. His connection was with all the businessmen. So, he had his quota very fast. When his quota was met, I had a short part of mine. So, there used to be what we call a house of ill repute down on Front Street called The 101 Plot. And I used to sell to the cook down there [00:26:00] frog legs. I caught them out by the old ice plant, in a special place with a fishing rod, hooked a little piece of red flannel on it. And those people liked frog legs, and I sold them to her. So, I was desperate. I knocked on the door and asked for the manager. The manager came and said, “Oh, you’re the boy that sells us frog legs.” And I told him what I was doing. And he said, “Well, you sit down on the step.” I never got in the place. I sat down on the step; they brought a wad of money out. I needed a little more. And this money, as I remembered, I stuffed in my Boy Scout suit. [00:27:00] I have a picture of that suit out in the front room in my office. And it was a lot of it in 1,000 bills. I don’t play those people believed in putting money in the bank at that time. And I thought, well, I had good luck here, so I know where another of these places is. I’d never been there. And if I had told the business that that was over, the bank teller would shudder, so I’m not going to tell that. But I went and knocked on that door. And I got the rest of my money, and I took it down to the bank. And I went into the banker, where my folks had dealt for years. He said, “Where’d you get it?” And I said, “Well, you know that place I’ve seen you at?” And he never asked anymore questions [00:28:00] and took money, and the bonds were payable to bearer, and I got all the bonds, and I took them back and delivered them. And I got the letter from the White House, signed by Woodrow Wilson. And I got the medal. When I was in school some girl talked me out of it and I hadn’t seen it since and the girl left town.
DICK: How much money did you collect?
FRANK: I think about 50,000 dollars.
DICK: They just handed you 50,000.
FRANK: Well, I got it in several pieces. (break in audio)
DICK: Well, that was interesting, Frank. Now you’ve also mentioned in the past what you did is a child, the Chinese and the laundry and so forth, what’s some of the things you did?
FRANK: Oh, some of us, there used to be what was called the [00:29:00] Troy Laundry over on 13th Avenue. The was operated by a very prominent businessman by the name of L. L. Gray, who was a leader in Nampa for many years until he died. A very fine man. He ran the Troy Laundry. Practically behind his laundry was the Chinese laundry. The Chinese Laundry had their wires to hang clothes up on, up on the roof. So, some of my friends and I decided that it would be fun to cut their clotheslines. And we did that a couple of times and the clothes fell on the tar roof and got dirty, and the poor Chinese laundrymen had to do them over. So, one time, [00:30:00] we got caught. But before that, who got the blame for cutting the clothesline? L. L. Gray’s son, whose name was Joh. They got the blame for it. But when we got, we were chased down the street with either butcher knives, or meat cleavers, or something. And we outran them. But we never cut any more clotheslines.
DICK: Was it common for others to pull pranks on the Chinese? Or was it just you guys?
FRANK: No. No, not really.
DICK: Where did the Chinese live? Did they pretty much live in their shops?
FRANK: They lived in their shops and the basements they had. And as far as I know, they didn’t live in residential buildings at that time. They do now. Not then.
DICK: Along in 1920, 1921, [00:31:00] was there any Spanish element in town? Or was this a later, the farming?
FRANK: Not to speak of.
DICK: What was the population made up, then? A little bit of everything?
FRANK: Yes.
(break in audio)
DICK: What was the politics in Nampa in 1920? Were they active in politics?
FRANK: Oh, I don’t remember. In 1920, I’d have just been 15 years old, Dave. And I don’t remember a great deal about political activities in those days. A little later, yes. But I remember in the 1920s, my father and I were operating what was called the Original North Side Grocery, over on the north side, he was the owner, and I was the worker, delivering man, with a Model T [00:32:00] truck, and I delivered the groceries.
END OF AUDIO FILE