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Sumner M Johnson_3
SUMNER: That’s probably in about the fall of ’49.
KEN: What was the treatment –
SUMNER: Before that?
KEN: Yeah. What did we have? Just septic, then?
SUMNER: I think they were different versions of septic tanks. They’d put in a septic tank here and it outgrew, and they’d put in another, and down where the dog pound is now, there were some large septic tanks in there. And I don’t believe the city had what they call an Imhoff tank, that’s a little more sophisticated, but it was just a matter of collecting the solids, and then they discharged it direct to Indian Creek, the effluent, they didn’t go to drain fields. And I didn’t have a whole lot to do with that, because we hired [00:01:00] John Farthergale as the inspector out there. And of course, I would be involved in some of the decision-making. That’s where I got my first exposure to actual on the job construction of a sewer plant.
KEN: I wonder if there any pictures available that you might have, or the firm might have of that project.
SUMNER: Of course, I wasn’t with the firm in those days, and I doubt if I’d have any pictures of it. Can’t believe I do. I’m not much of a photographer, so I don’t think I’d have any. I don’t know. Later, when it was remodeled or expanded in the late ’60s, we might have some of that. There might be some, someplace on that. Anyway, as I’ve mentioned earlier, the records, [00:02:00] the city engineer records were in a shamble. And, quite frankly, the first winter of ’48-’49, it was very cold, it got down, frost went over four feet deep in the streets, we had watermains frozen four feet deep. I don’t remember it ever getting that deep since, even last year, I don’t think it was bad. And so, I was kind of just on my own trying to figure out what I was supposed to do. The city engineer didn’t give me much instruction. And so, I went through the process of cataloging and getting all the records and finding out what we had as a basis to work from. And then, I started getting involved in surveying for curb and gutter construction. [00:03:00] People would call in want their lot staked for curb and gutter. It was a very inefficient method to go out and do 50 feet. But in that, you needed to know where the centerline of the street was. And before the Depression, there was good surveying procedures used, and there was monuments all over town in street intersections, but they were buried. And of course, with gravel roads, that’s all you can do, dig them down below... (break in audio)
SUMNER: Anyway, and the surveyors during the Depression [00:04:00] got pretty confidential with their information. They didn’t change it back and forth. And they intentionally did not leave any evidence, so that they could go out and survey a piece of property cheaper than their competitor. And of course, I was on the public payroll, so I started a process of digging those up on a needed them, and reference tying them, and creating a reference tie book. And then the local surveyors, John Farthergale and Bob Ednee, primarily, John Griffiths a little later, and then later on Mel Davenport, they would come in and get my records from the city, and then in the process, I got them exchanging information and started the process of public exchange of all survey information. And then, years later, when we came back here in ’57, the city engineer, [00:05:00] we started a program of bringing those monuments to the surface and setting in the brush gap and concrete, which then anybody can walk out there and find it. And we’ve even gone more sophisticated than that in the surveying field that we require a surveyor to file a record of survey when he does a survey that shows new evidence, new information, and he has to file a corner perpetuation record of when he reestablishes, a section corner, quarter corner, or a point of beginning on a subdivision, so that that date is in the public record and it’s available for anybody. But I feel that that started when I was with the city in that period of fall of ’48 to the fall of ’51, when we right here in Nampa started the [00:06:00] exchanging of information much earlier. Then, at that time, also, they created I think it was LID number 40, which was the first modern, large local improvement district in Nampa to provide sewers for the unsewered area, basically, in the town at that time, at least I should say the west and south part of the town at that time. And Briggs and Associates did the engineering on it, and that’s where I got acquainted with them, and eventually then, when that went to construction in the fall of ’51, they needed an inspector and I saw the opportunity and went to work for them as the inspector that wrapped up this whole project. And that started my...
KEN: What was here, [00:07:00] then other than the original town? So, when you say south and west, I’m assuming that’s south and west of the original townsite, basically.
SUMNER: Well, Togstad’s Edition for instance was in, and of course, Canyon Street clear down to -- I think it even had been pushed through clear to Lake Lowell. Moad’s Addition was in its various stages, a lot of it was already in, Geesion Addition was in, and part of the Moad Addition and Moad subdivision and so forth were in. Of course, Kurtz’s addition was there for years. But here’s an old, old plat, but didn’t really fully develop, there was a lot of acreage, and so forth. And sewers were in the north and west part of it, but this south part down around Amity had no sewers and this LID 40 wrap basically [00:08:00] down Canyon to Elijah Drain, down Elijah Drain to Amity, and east on Amity, generally, and then branched off. It seems to me about a half million-dollar project.
KEN: A big one.
SUMNER: Yeah, in those days, you can say that. And then, of course, later, in the late ’60s, we did LID 49, 49A, which was a major sewer project for the whole of Nampa. And our goal was to get the entire corporate limits served with sewer. We got that done except for one area, and that was out south of the Nampa Livestock area, well, for instance, Brown Bus company and those are in there, [00:09:00] it took a very expensive railroad under crossing over to Railroad Street and down First Street North and that way to serve those people. And at the LID protest hearing, those people were so solid in their opposition to it that the council, in good wisdom, took it out. Historically, it was a bad thing, because those people still don’t have sewers. Yet, we had a project, there were some federal funds available, and so forth, if we could have done it, why, they’d have sewers now and they’d all be paid for, and they wouldn’t even realize it had been a burden.
KEN: In the development of a city, and of course, we’re now in the 100th year from the original townsite of Nampa up to a population of some 27,000 within the city limits, an [00:10:00] additional 15 to 20,000 in the area immediately surrounding Nampa. So, the greater Nampa area, we’re talking of population now 40 to 45,000 people. How important is it in the development of a city, for some of these basic services we’re starting talking about, such as a sewer, and water, and streets? Starting with sewer first.
SUMNER: And that’s, of course, the thing that should be put in first, because it’s the deepest in the ground. And so, you if you put the water line in first or the gas mains in first, you’ve got to fight those lines in your process. If you can get the sewer in, and then then once it’s in, then you can put the water line in and cross it over, and so forth, [00:11:00] not having problems. And you for sure don’t want to build the streets until you’ve got all those in because means you built the street without them in. And that’s when one of the problems of LID 40 and LID 49, is you had to go in and replace a bunch of streets, because all those areas had septic tanks. So, in my opinion, you want to get all those things in first. And you need to have an overall plan. Because if you don’t, you’re going to undersize them and put them in the wrong location and things like that. And when I say an overall plan, that doesn’t mean you have it perfect, because things are going to happen different than you can predict. But it’s better to have an imperfect plan than no plan at all. And that’s one of the things, [00:12:00] for instance, you can branch off onto the street situation. In the late ’50s, Bob Underkofler, my partner, became aware of a plan that the Federal Highway Administration was trying to foster. And he presented to the city council, and they went for it, and Nampa ended up being one of the first cities in the nation that developed a transportation plan that brought the Federal Highway Administration, or Department, the State Highway Department, the Canyon County Commissioners, the Nampa Highway District, the City of Nampa and the Chamber of Commerce, into a common meeting to develop a network for a major transportation, highway
transportation, to serve Nampa. That has been updated maybe every five, six years. And today is still the City of Nampa’s [00:13:00] transportation plan, and you’ve seen it.
KEN: I’ve seen it.
SUMNER: And one of the highlights in that, to me, is, in the first plan, we as a city goal, said that Holly Street needed to be extended south of Hawaii on an S curve to the east to tie into Sunny Ridge Road. That is being done now, after some 20 -- no, about 18 years, I guess it is.
KEN: Yeah, that’s the plan on the wall is the current project.
SUMNER: And that was one of them. And of course, the interstate highway was programmed as part of that plan, the 16th Avenue routing and overpass as a function of that. [00:14:00] The Nampa Boulevard, one of the major connectors from the interstate for us was a result of that plan. And in fact, I can’t say his name, now. (inaudible) get it, a realtor gentleman here in town, and I represented the chamber and the city and went before the State Highway Board to sponsor the Nampa Boulevard connector and overpass. And as a result of that meeting, we got it approved and put on the highway system to be built and funded. But that type of thing, the plan is not perfect when you build it, but they’ve met every five or six years and updated it and put out a new document. And Lou Ross, who was the State Highway Planning Engineer, [00:15:00] whatever his title was then, left Idaho and went to Washington DC with the Federal Highway Administration. And he took the Nampa Transport Placement Plan and used it as the model for small communities in the United States.
KEN: That’s quite a compliment.
SUMNER: We were very proud that we had a part to do with it.
KEN: Well, over the last 30 years, 35 years, you had a great deal, personally, to do the development of what we now call the infrastructure, the basic public works type projects in Nampa, either directly as a city engineer, as a consultant for the city, or in some cases, as the engineer representing some private developers. You’ve seen everything within that last 35 years, probably have a [00:16:00] more intimate knowledge than any other single person in Nampa.
SUMNER: That could be true. For instance, we did a water study there, I don’t know, probably ’59 or ’60, that used as a basis for a long time of converting the old, four-inch diameter watermain, when it was put in, and 40 years ago, it was a big watermain. But nowadays, why, it just isn’t big enough. And so, we did that study, and that then served as a basis for the water department and replacing, putting in eight- and 10-inch main, sometimes 12-inch main, where they needed a new well source to fit the area. And I think almost all of that has been implemented. And now of course, the city has expanded beyond that, [00:17:00] as the new annexation has come about. And so, I don’t have any knowledge of what those basic plans are, but I know Larry has done a good job of continuing that plan.
KEN: Yeah, he is. In fact, that’s something that Nampa has to offer, where we stand out, as companies, industries look for siting, is Nampa does have a good water supply. We have the sewer services and sewer capacity that’s just unmatched.
SUMNER: And that’s because of a good forward looking city administration. If I had a part to do it, I’m pleased. But I know you’ve had a strong part in it, in recent years.
KEN: Of course, yeah. But you have to have a good foundation to build on it, which you’ve provided. What are some of the major projects, as you view the development of Nampa, [00:18:00] since your professional involvement in public works in engineering since the early ’50s, up to the present time?
SUMNER: Well, there’s many things that fit into a network, as you just said, that we as a community had our foundation or backbone structure for a water system, a sewer system, a transportation system, and a drainage system. So, that then, when an industry or a residential developer came to town, they saw what they had to do, and if they could make it fit into their economic projections, they were ready to go. And as a result, that permitted, I think, orderly growth where in other communities, they’d [00:19:00] go and they’d see the problem, but there was no pattern of how to solve it. And industrial, I think, is one of the big elements. I remember when I came as city engineer in ’57, the Nampa Industrial Corporation was kind of floundered out there and they had the right idea but weren’t getting it off the ground because they didn’t have sewer, and they didn’t have proper water mains. And so, through a result of the sewer and watermain plans and construction, I got involved, then with the Nampa Industrial Corporation, in fact, I ended up being on the board, and I’ve been on it 17 or 18 years now. And we brought a lot of industry to the community onto property that was owned and developed by Nampa Industrial Corporation preparation, but probably an equal amount we brought by just the fact that the NIC was in existence, and they’d come talk to us and we’d show them a whole bunch of other property. [00:20:00] Martin Wood Products, for instance, came as a result of activities in Nampa Industrial Corporations before I was involved, by the way. So, there’s a lot of industrial activities that are spin offs that Nampa Industrial Corporation take a little credit for. And it’s the economic base of our workforce. And it’s been good for the community, I think.
KEN: Indeed, it has.
SUMNER: The 16th Avenue overpass is a major project that we were able to help the city find the funding to get the thing going.
KEN: In what year was that project completed?
SUMNER: I’d say in the late ’60s. [00:21:00] Mayor Starr, I went to Ernie, and I said, “Ernie, we can get funding for it. But” I said, “We’ve got to get it on the federal aid secondary highway designation.” And I said, “As an engineer, I can’t do too much to get that accomplished, but you as a mayor can.” And Ernie took the bit and got it done. He got it done. I gave him the idea, but it was a political thing, not a technical thing. And so, he got that done. And then of course, on the 11th Avenue underpass...
KEN: Yeah, you were involved –
SUMNER: Behind the scenes.
KEN: -- behind the scenes getting that done.
SUMNER: And that’s the key. Everybody’s got projects if they can find some money to fund them. And of course, the Nampa Boulevard overpass, and rerouting, [00:22:00] and rebuilding was as a result of activities in the Nampa Chamber of Commerce and the city. And John Ray was that guy’s name. He used to live right across the street here on the corner. He was the fellow who was the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce Highway Committee, when we met with the State Highway Board and got Nampa Boulevard approved. The school system has been a big impact. I remember they bought the 40 acres for the high school site. And the first thing they built there was the football field. They could build that without a whole lot of expenditure. And the only place we could play football was in the rodeo park, [00:23:00] and they were going to eliminate the football field and turn that into a rodeo stadium, you see, which it presently is, that was about 1951, maybe, that that was done. And so, they had to have a place to play their football games. And so, they contracted with Bill Hayes, the school district did, and they hired me, and I went out there moonlighted and laid out the track and the football field at nights. And, at the time, the experts were saying you should put a crown in the field, of a foot, I think.
KEN: For drainage?
SUMNER: Yeah, so that the water would drain away and not pawn. And we put that crown in that and I can sure remember the old timers saying, [00:24:00] “My heavens, that ain’t going to work. It’ll mislead the passer because he’ll be passing uphill from one place and downhill from another,” and so forth. But of course, now, there isn’t a field built without even more crown than that in it. It was one of the early ones that got it. And then next, they built the gym, and they’ve built classrooms.
KEN: You were on the school board for how many years?
SUMNER: I was just on three years.
KEN: When was that?
SUMNER: Oh, that was about ’65 to ’67, I think. It was quite an upheaval in the school system, then.
KEN: Yeah, I guess it was all over the country, with the Vietnam protests.
SUMNER: And then, of course, the innovative teaching, [00:25:00] team teaching and all those things were coming into vogue then. And we really had a strong element that was adamant for that. And, of course, I’ve always been somewhat willing to look at creative ideas. And so, through the process, we did move into some of that team teaching philosophy, but it’s kind of gone out of favor. And as Rex Engelking came in as superintendent, following the period that I was on the board, And I’ve told Rex this many times, that the best thing that ever happened to him is that we had a three-year period there where the liberals were really trying to do all those good things, and they found out they wouldn’t be good. And so, [00:26:00] then when Rex came in, he looks like a wild-eyed conservative, but really, he’s very liberal. (laughs) And he probably got a lot of his programs through that he couldn’t have got, if he’d have followed the Harry Mills superintendent. But the fact that -- I can’t say the superintendent’s name now -- [Oglesby, was in there for a couple of years, and he was very modern. And as a result, then, when Rex came, I think he was able to do a good job and did do a good job. At that time, we planned the both of the two junior high schools, and built the Sunny Ridge School out there in that residential section [00:27:00] that needed it. So, there was a lot of activities going on in the schools in those days. It was going through a lot of growing pains. We went from a three-person superintendent’s office to a few more and then in recent years, it got up to be a bureaucracy, but I think they finally settled back now, and it’s a realistic number. Those things happen. And, of course, Harry Mills was the superintendent and had a lot of talent in certain areas, but the one that was the vogue then was curriculum and modern teaching methods, and that wasn’t Harry’s long suit. And so, we as board, visited with him on it. [00:28:00] And I went to bat for Harry, quite frankly and said, “Harry, we’ve got a job for you here as long as you want to stay, but probably not going to be as superintendent in charge of curriculum.” And Harry was...
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SUMNER: That’s probably in about the fall of ’49.
KEN: What was the treatment –
SUMNER: Before that?
KEN: Yeah. What did we have? Just septic, then?
SUMNER: I think they were different versions of septic tanks. They’d put in a septic tank here and it outgrew, and they’d put in another, and down where the dog pound is now, there were some large septic tanks in there. And I don’t believe the city had what they call an Imhoff tank, that’s a little more sophisticated, but it was just a matter of collecting the solids, and then they discharged it direct to Indian Creek, the effluent, they didn’t go to drain fields. And I didn’t have a whole lot to do with that, because we hired [00:01:00] John Farthergale as the inspector out there. And of course, I would be involved in some of the decision-making. That’s where I got my first exposure to actual on the job construction of a sewer plant.
KEN: I wonder if there any pictures available that you might have, or the firm might have of that project.
SUMNER: Of course, I wasn’t with the firm in those days, and I doubt if I’d have any pictures of it. Can’t believe I do. I’m not much of a photographer, so I don’t think I’d have any. I don’t know. Later, when it was remodeled or expanded in the late ’60s, we might have some of that. There might be some, someplace on that. Anyway, as I’ve mentioned earlier, the records, [00:02:00] the city engineer records were in a shamble. And, quite frankly, the first winter of ’48-’49, it was very cold, it got down, frost went over four feet deep in the streets, we had watermains frozen four feet deep. I don’t remember it ever getting that deep since, even last year, I don’t think it was bad. And so, I was kind of just on my own trying to figure out what I was supposed to do. The city engineer didn’t give me much instruction. And so, I went through the process of cataloging and getting all the records and finding out what we had as a basis to work from. And then, I started getting involved in surveying for curb and gutter construction. [00:03:00] People would call in want their lot staked for curb and gutter. It was a very inefficient method to go out and do 50 feet. But in that, you needed to know where the centerline of the street was. And before the Depression, there was good surveying procedures used, and there was monuments all over town in street intersections, but they were buried. And of course, with gravel roads, that’s all you can do, dig them down below... (break in audio)
SUMNER: Anyway, and the surveyors during the Depression [00:04:00] got pretty confidential with their information. They didn’t change it back and forth. And they intentionally did not leave any evidence, so that they could go out and survey a piece of property cheaper than their competitor. And of course, I was on the public payroll, so I started a process of digging those up on a needed them, and reference tying them, and creating a reference tie book. And then the local surveyors, John Farthergale and Bob Ednee, primarily, John Griffiths a little later, and then later on Mel Davenport, they would come in and get my records from the city, and then in the process, I got them exchanging information and started the process of public exchange of all survey information. And then, years later, when we came back here in ’57, the city engineer, [00:05:00] we started a program of bringing those monuments to the surface and setting in the brush gap and concrete, which then anybody can walk out there and find it. And we’ve even gone more sophisticated than that in the surveying field that we require a surveyor to file a record of survey when he does a survey that shows new evidence, new information, and he has to file a corner perpetuation record of when he reestablishes, a section corner, quarter corner, or a point of beginning on a subdivision, so that that date is in the public record and it’s available for anybody. But I feel that that started when I was with the city in that period of fall of ’48 to the fall of ’51, when we right here in Nampa started the [00:06:00] exchanging of information much earlier. Then, at that time, also, they created I think it was LID number 40, which was the first modern, large local improvement district in Nampa to provide sewers for the unsewered area, basically, in the town at that time, at least I should say the west and south part of the town at that time. And Briggs and Associates did the engineering on it, and that’s where I got acquainted with them, and eventually then, when that went to construction in the fall of ’51, they needed an inspector and I saw the opportunity and went to work for them as the inspector that wrapped up this whole project. And that started my...
KEN: What was here, [00:07:00] then other than the original town? So, when you say south and west, I’m assuming that’s south and west of the original townsite, basically.
SUMNER: Well, Togstad’s Edition for instance was in, and of course, Canyon Street clear down to -- I think it even had been pushed through clear to Lake Lowell. Moad’s Addition was in its various stages, a lot of it was already in, Geesion Addition was in, and part of the Moad Addition and Moad subdivision and so forth were in. Of course, Kurtz’s addition was there for years. But here’s an old, old plat, but didn’t really fully develop, there was a lot of acreage, and so forth. And sewers were in the north and west part of it, but this south part down around Amity had no sewers and this LID 40 wrap basically [00:08:00] down Canyon to Elijah Drain, down Elijah Drain to Amity, and east on Amity, generally, and then branched off. It seems to me about a half million-dollar project.
KEN: A big one.
SUMNER: Yeah, in those days, you can say that. And then, of course, later, in the late ’60s, we did LID 49, 49A, which was a major sewer project for the whole of Nampa. And our goal was to get the entire corporate limits served with sewer. We got that done except for one area, and that was out south of the Nampa Livestock area, well, for instance, Brown Bus company and those are in there, [00:09:00] it took a very expensive railroad under crossing over to Railroad Street and down First Street North and that way to serve those people. And at the LID protest hearing, those people were so solid in their opposition to it that the council, in good wisdom, took it out. Historically, it was a bad thing, because those people still don’t have sewers. Yet, we had a project, there were some federal funds available, and so forth, if we could have done it, why, they’d have sewers now and they’d all be paid for, and they wouldn’t even realize it had been a burden.
KEN: In the development of a city, and of course, we’re now in the 100th year from the original townsite of Nampa up to a population of some 27,000 within the city limits, an [00:10:00] additional 15 to 20,000 in the area immediately surrounding Nampa. So, the greater Nampa area, we’re talking of population now 40 to 45,000 people. How important is it in the development of a city, for some of these basic services we’re starting talking about, such as a sewer, and water, and streets? Starting with sewer first.
SUMNER: And that’s, of course, the thing that should be put in first, because it’s the deepest in the ground. And so, you if you put the water line in first or the gas mains in first, you’ve got to fight those lines in your process. If you can get the sewer in, and then then once it’s in, then you can put the water line in and cross it over, and so forth, [00:11:00] not having problems. And you for sure don’t want to build the streets until you’ve got all those in because means you built the street without them in. And that’s when one of the problems of LID 40 and LID 49, is you had to go in and replace a bunch of streets, because all those areas had septic tanks. So, in my opinion, you want to get all those things in first. And you need to have an overall plan. Because if you don’t, you’re going to undersize them and put them in the wrong location and things like that. And when I say an overall plan, that doesn’t mean you have it perfect, because things are going to happen different than you can predict. But it’s better to have an imperfect plan than no plan at all. And that’s one of the things, [00:12:00] for instance, you can branch off onto the street situation. In the late ’50s, Bob Underkofler, my partner, became aware of a plan that the Federal Highway Administration was trying to foster. And he presented to the city council, and they went for it, and Nampa ended up being one of the first cities in the nation that developed a transportation plan that brought the Federal Highway Administration, or Department, the State Highway Department, the Canyon County Commissioners, the Nampa Highway District, the City of Nampa and the Chamber of Commerce, into a common meeting to develop a network for a major transportation, highway
transportation, to serve Nampa. That has been updated maybe every five, six years. And today is still the City of Nampa’s [00:13:00] transportation plan, and you’ve seen it.
KEN: I’ve seen it.
SUMNER: And one of the highlights in that, to me, is, in the first plan, we as a city goal, said that Holly Street needed to be extended south of Hawaii on an S curve to the east to tie into Sunny Ridge Road. That is being done now, after some 20 -- no, about 18 years, I guess it is.
KEN: Yeah, that’s the plan on the wall is the current project.
SUMNER: And that was one of them. And of course, the interstate highway was programmed as part of that plan, the 16th Avenue routing and overpass as a function of that. [00:14:00] The Nampa Boulevard, one of the major connectors from the interstate for us was a result of that plan. And in fact, I can’t say his name, now. (inaudible) get it, a realtor gentleman here in town, and I represented the chamber and the city and went before the State Highway Board to sponsor the Nampa Boulevard connector and overpass. And as a result of that meeting, we got it approved and put on the highway system to be built and funded. But that type of thing, the plan is not perfect when you build it, but they’ve met every five or six years and updated it and put out a new document. And Lou Ross, who was the State Highway Planning Engineer, [00:15:00] whatever his title was then, left Idaho and went to Washington DC with the Federal Highway Administration. And he took the Nampa Transport Placement Plan and used it as the model for small communities in the United States.
KEN: That’s quite a compliment.
SUMNER: We were very proud that we had a part to do with it.
KEN: Well, over the last 30 years, 35 years, you had a great deal, personally, to do the development of what we now call the infrastructure, the basic public works type projects in Nampa, either directly as a city engineer, as a consultant for the city, or in some cases, as the engineer representing some private developers. You’ve seen everything within that last 35 years, probably have a [00:16:00] more intimate knowledge than any other single person in Nampa.
SUMNER: That could be true. For instance, we did a water study there, I don’t know, probably ’59 or ’60, that used as a basis for a long time of converting the old, four-inch diameter watermain, when it was put in, and 40 years ago, it was a big watermain. But nowadays, why, it just isn’t big enough. And so, we did that study, and that then served as a basis for the water department and replacing, putting in eight- and 10-inch main, sometimes 12-inch main, where they needed a new well source to fit the area. And I think almost all of that has been implemented. And now of course, the city has expanded beyond that, [00:17:00] as the new annexation has come about. And so, I don’t have any knowledge of what those basic plans are, but I know Larry has done a good job of continuing that plan.
KEN: Yeah, he is. In fact, that’s something that Nampa has to offer, where we stand out, as companies, industries look for siting, is Nampa does have a good water supply. We have the sewer services and sewer capacity that’s just unmatched.
SUMNER: And that’s because of a good forward looking city administration. If I had a part to do it, I’m pleased. But I know you’ve had a strong part in it, in recent years.
KEN: Of course, yeah. But you have to have a good foundation to build on it, which you’ve provided. What are some of the major projects, as you view the development of Nampa, [00:18:00] since your professional involvement in public works in engineering since the early ’50s, up to the present time?
SUMNER: Well, there’s many things that fit into a network, as you just said, that we as a community had our foundation or backbone structure for a water system, a sewer system, a transportation system, and a drainage system. So, that then, when an industry or a residential developer came to town, they saw what they had to do, and if they could make it fit into their economic projections, they were ready to go. And as a result, that permitted, I think, orderly growth where in other communities, they’d [00:19:00] go and they’d see the problem, but there was no pattern of how to solve it. And industrial, I think, is one of the big elements. I remember when I came as city engineer in ’57, the Nampa Industrial Corporation was kind of floundered out there and they had the right idea but weren’t getting it off the ground because they didn’t have sewer, and they didn’t have proper water mains. And so, through a result of the sewer and watermain plans and construction, I got involved, then with the Nampa Industrial Corporation, in fact, I ended up being on the board, and I’ve been on it 17 or 18 years now. And we brought a lot of industry to the community onto property that was owned and developed by Nampa Industrial Corporation preparation, but probably an equal amount we brought by just the fact that the NIC was in existence, and they’d come talk to us and we’d show them a whole bunch of other property. [00:20:00] Martin Wood Products, for instance, came as a result of activities in Nampa Industrial Corporations before I was involved, by the way. So, there’s a lot of industrial activities that are spin offs that Nampa Industrial Corporation take a little credit for. And it’s the economic base of our workforce. And it’s been good for the community, I think.
KEN: Indeed, it has.
SUMNER: The 16th Avenue overpass is a major project that we were able to help the city find the funding to get the thing going.
KEN: In what year was that project completed?
SUMNER: I’d say in the late ’60s. [00:21:00] Mayor Starr, I went to Ernie, and I said, “Ernie, we can get funding for it. But” I said, “We’ve got to get it on the federal aid secondary highway designation.” And I said, “As an engineer, I can’t do too much to get that accomplished, but you as a mayor can.” And Ernie took the bit and got it done. He got it done. I gave him the idea, but it was a political thing, not a technical thing. And so, he got that done. And then of course, on the 11th Avenue underpass...
KEN: Yeah, you were involved –
SUMNER: Behind the scenes.
KEN: -- behind the scenes getting that done.
SUMNER: And that’s the key. Everybody’s got projects if they can find some money to fund them. And of course, the Nampa Boulevard overpass, and rerouting, [00:22:00] and rebuilding was as a result of activities in the Nampa Chamber of Commerce and the city. And John Ray was that guy’s name. He used to live right across the street here on the corner. He was the fellow who was the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce Highway Committee, when we met with the State Highway Board and got Nampa Boulevard approved. The school system has been a big impact. I remember they bought the 40 acres for the high school site. And the first thing they built there was the football field. They could build that without a whole lot of expenditure. And the only place we could play football was in the rodeo park, [00:23:00] and they were going to eliminate the football field and turn that into a rodeo stadium, you see, which it presently is, that was about 1951, maybe, that that was done. And so, they had to have a place to play their football games. And so, they contracted with Bill Hayes, the school district did, and they hired me, and I went out there moonlighted and laid out the track and the football field at nights. And, at the time, the experts were saying you should put a crown in the field, of a foot, I think.
KEN: For drainage?
SUMNER: Yeah, so that the water would drain away and not pawn. And we put that crown in that and I can sure remember the old timers saying, [00:24:00] “My heavens, that ain’t going to work. It’ll mislead the passer because he’ll be passing uphill from one place and downhill from another,” and so forth. But of course, now, there isn’t a field built without even more crown than that in it. It was one of the early ones that got it. And then next, they built the gym, and they’ve built classrooms.
KEN: You were on the school board for how many years?
SUMNER: I was just on three years.
KEN: When was that?
SUMNER: Oh, that was about ’65 to ’67, I think. It was quite an upheaval in the school system, then.
KEN: Yeah, I guess it was all over the country, with the Vietnam protests.
SUMNER: And then, of course, the innovative teaching, [00:25:00] team teaching and all those things were coming into vogue then. And we really had a strong element that was adamant for that. And, of course, I’ve always been somewhat willing to look at creative ideas. And so, through the process, we did move into some of that team teaching philosophy, but it’s kind of gone out of favor. And as Rex Engelking came in as superintendent, following the period that I was on the board, And I’ve told Rex this many times, that the best thing that ever happened to him is that we had a three-year period there where the liberals were really trying to do all those good things, and they found out they wouldn’t be good. And so, [00:26:00] then when Rex came in, he looks like a wild-eyed conservative, but really, he’s very liberal. (laughs) And he probably got a lot of his programs through that he couldn’t have got, if he’d have followed the Harry Mills superintendent. But the fact that -- I can’t say the superintendent’s name now -- [Oglesby, was in there for a couple of years, and he was very modern. And as a result, then, when Rex came, I think he was able to do a good job and did do a good job. At that time, we planned the both of the two junior high schools, and built the Sunny Ridge School out there in that residential section [00:27:00] that needed it. So, there was a lot of activities going on in the schools in those days. It was going through a lot of growing pains. We went from a three-person superintendent’s office to a few more and then in recent years, it got up to be a bureaucracy, but I think they finally settled back now, and it’s a realistic number. Those things happen. And, of course, Harry Mills was the superintendent and had a lot of talent in certain areas, but the one that was the vogue then was curriculum and modern teaching methods, and that wasn’t Harry’s long suit. And so, we as board, visited with him on it. [00:28:00] And I went to bat for Harry, quite frankly and said, “Harry, we’ve got a job for you here as long as you want to stay, but probably not going to be as superintendent in charge of curriculum.” And Harry was...
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