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                    <text>At 50 2nd St S, the new 125,000 square feet shopping center with many retail departments. Opened in late 1985. &#13;
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View of main entrance and street sign.</text>
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                    <text>Fred Meyer, a retail variety and grocery store, opened in 1985.&#13;
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                <text>Fred G. Meyer originally opened Fred Meyer's in Portland, Oregon in 1908, and spread throughout the Pacific Northwest.&#13;
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                    <text>Located on 12th Avenue and First Street South. The mercantile offered clothing, goods and groceries.&#13;
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                <text>The Nampa Department Store was a new business in 1909, and was known as Falk's Nampa D. The store changed names several times over the years as: Golden Rule Store, Idaho Department Store and ID Store. Falk's had also been known as Falk Bloch Mercantile, and later Falk's Mercantile.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here are photos of the business in its various incarnations.</text>
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                    <text>Store name unidentified but was owned by Ed Huntley.&#13;
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                    <text>From the needs of grange members to protect their financial interests during the Great Depression, W.W. Deal, master of the Idaho Grange obtained a business license in 1935 to start the Grange Mutual Life Insurance Company.&#13;
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                <text>&lt;span&gt;S.B. Shellabarger&lt;/span&gt; established Nampa's first funeral chapel in 1907. &lt;span&gt;April 8, 1911, F.K. Robinson bought the Funeral Chapel from Shellabarger, naming it Robinson's Funeral Chapel.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt; In 1945, John F. Alsip, Jr., who had been running a mortuaries in Washington since 1929, came to Nampa to buy an interest in the Robinson Chapel. Alsip bought out the remaining shares in the business in 1968 and renamed the business.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span&gt;On October 15, 2000 Alsip Funeral Chapel and Persons Funeral Chapel (located at 12th Ave. South and 5th St. South, and owned and operated by Howard and Norine Persons), merged together to form Alsip &amp;amp; Persons Funeral Chapel. &lt;em&gt;[https://www.alsippersons.com/]&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                    <text>Copyright 2012 Idaho State Historical Society. Permission is required for use in any form. For further information please contact the Idaho State Historical Archives.</text>
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                    <text> Fire started by fireworks. It burned all of the block from Front to Main (now 1st Street) between 13th and 12th. &#13;
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                    <text>Copyright 2012 Idaho State Historical Society. Permission is required for use in any form. For further information please contact the Idaho State Historical Archives.</text>
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                    <text>C. A. Sweninger &amp; Lucy Redmon</text>
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                    <text> Fire viewed from the lawn of the Dewey Palace Hotel. Fire from a fireworks display at the Arnold cigar store. Photo taken prior to the full conflagration that destroyed the entire block situated kitty-corner to the Hotel.</text>
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                    <text>Copyright 2012 Idaho State Historical Society. Permission is required for use in any form. For further information please contact the Idaho State Historical Archives.</text>
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                    <text>Photo after the big fire, July 3, 1909. Image has written note: &#13;
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Within 3 hours, the 1909 fire completely demolished 25 stores and burned out 60 businesses destroying the entire block between Front Street  and First Streets and Twelfth and Thirteenth Avenues.</text>
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                    <text>Copyright 2012 Idaho State Historical Society. Permission is required for use in any form. For further information please contact the Idaho State Historical Archives.</text>
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                <text>On the afternoon of July 3, 1909, an unknown man entered Arnold's Cigar Store (located on Front Street, across from the Nampa Depot.) The shop had fireworks displayed for sale for the upcoming Independence Day Celebration. The stranger picked up a firework and said he wanted to see how it would burn. Before Mr. Arnold could stop him, the impulsive individual lit the firework and set off the remaining fireworks in the display.  Fortunately, the 4-5 people in the store were able to escape, but the ensuing conflagration burned the entire block bounded by Front Street and First Streets between Twelfth and Thirteenth Avenue.&#13;
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To view further details, click on the individual photos included, taken of that fateful day.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://nampalibrary.omeka.net/items/show/819"&gt;Fire Engines and Equipment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://nampalibrary.omeka.net/items/show/611" title="Chief of Volunteer Fire Dept."&gt;George T. Mayhugh&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                    <text>LOUIS REICHART: -- fine in this machine, now.  What’s the difference?  (pause) -- be running smooth yet.  Now it seems to be running better.  (pause) One, two, three, four.  How’s it doing now?  One, two, three, four.  One, two, three, four.  One, two, three, four, five, six.  One, two, three, four, five, six.  Record.  One, two, three, four, five, six.  [00:01:00]&#13;
(break in audio)&#13;
&#13;
Now, start recording and see what we get.  Record, one, two, three, four.  Record, one, two, three, four.  Seems to work perfect.  Runs smooth, runs easy.  Other one does not.  (break in audio)&#13;
&#13;
Thank you, Ruth.  I came to Idaho the end of 1935.  I remember I went across the river.  I was working in Minnesota ’til across Wisconsin.  Was 40 below zero and a very strong wind.  I don’t know what that would make it on [00:02:00] today’s wind chill factor, but probably 60, 70 degrees below.  It was 40 above when we arrived in Nampa, and it seemed like heaven.  We thought we’d go to California, but seemed like this was it.&#13;
&#13;
I worked for Earl B. and Opal Crooks for many years at the CB oil company.  I purchased the company.  I believe it was September the 15th, 1962 or 3.  I know it was September the 15th.  Virginia and I owned the company until end of 1980.  1981, I sold it.  I sold the company.  When Mr. Crooks came to Nampa, 1919, after the World War I, he got home, of course, from France and Germany, and he and Mrs.  Crooks started a taxi business in Nampa, and he drove many people through the muddy streets of Nampa and the surrounding towns.  [00:03:00]&#13;
&#13;
One of his favorite people, best customers, was Dr. George E. Kellogg Sr.  Dr. Kellogg came to Nampa from Mayo Clinic, was regarded as the seventh best surgeon in the USA.  He made house calls continually.  His calls, many a time, took him across the ferry to Owyhee County, to Silver City, and Murphy, and places over there, around the area.  They were very busy towns, then.  A lot of people there, to what there is now, of course.  Many stories men told about crossing the old ferry on the river, on the Snake River, during high water, when it’s not safe to cross, but Mr. Crooks and Dr. Kellogg crossed it.  They took the car when no one else would cross.  They would go onto -- in Owyhee County, and, of course, the clay roads, which I can remember well before it was paved, were very, very slick, just like [00:04:00] glass, between the river and Murphy.  They were stuck in the mud many, many times.  Dr. Kellogg Sr. was a bike born in Mercy Hospital.  Even as late as two or three a.m., he could be seen and heard roaming the halls, seeing patients or performing emergency surgery at night.  Many of us loved him very much.&#13;
&#13;
The picture I have here of the 1924 telephone directory of Nampa -- I have shows a high cabin, small tanks on the trucks of those days.  They sure look funny, don’t they?  Also, the picture is in the old station that’s across the street from the Albright Realty and the skating rink.  Graebel Wholesale was where it now stands.  [00:05:00] You notice that bare ground and trees on those places along Front Street, where the rink and Albright is.  Also, on the 1924 telephone directory and on the trucks is showing the -- all the ads that he ran.  Pure white water kerosene and motor oils.  And, of course, there wasn’t much of that through here those days.  Silver City was large, and we just had to run loads of kerosene up there for their lamps.  We supplied stations as Silver City, had three in Melba, three or more in Murphy.  Note that on this second picture that CB Oil warehouse is in the back of the station.  You had lumber and coal advertised on it.  That’s approximately -- well, it’s a little over 150 by 150-foot building.  [00:06:00]&#13;
&#13;
It was occupied at one time by a lumber company, and, of course, Gibbs Transfer Company was there, and it was the old livery stable, where the horses were changed on their trip to Melba, Murphy, and Silver City.  They would come from Kuna, across, and then change horses and go on.  On the alley side, I believe it’s still there, on the wall where you can read these words.  Public watering troughs.  Along the alley side, perhaps one or more places where the troughs were, we can -- they can kinda be seen yet at the ground level.  They were in the way of my eighteen-wheeler trucks, especially the van when I was loading motor oils, and I had them removed by the (laughs) drivers.  They took sledgehammers, and they broke them out.  The trucks [00:07:00] would be backing up.  They’d run the tire, rub ’em against those troughs.&#13;
&#13;
Another picture.  Look at the bird’s eye view of Nampa.  In the rear of the picture, you can see the old watering tanks and coal chutes of the railroad.  The water tower, and the Dewey Palace hotel, and also the one water tower city of Nampa had.  Later, o’ course, they built another one.  The Dewey Palace shows up quite well.  Note the large buildings along the railroad tracks on Front Street.  There were houses along 11th Avenue South.  That, course, was before the subway.  The old Simlar Hotel, or Brandt buildings that we called it, across from CB Oil office, was the only building on 1st Street South and 10th Avenue.  The old fire station is here in the picture, but the Gent’s Creamery was built at a later date.  In (inaudible) Union C? warehouse is or was the old creamery.  [00:08:00]&#13;
&#13;
That was there on the corner of 1st Street and 9th Avenue South.  It really looks blank in this picture from the Simlar Hotel to the Dewey Palace.  Just a street between them.  The CB warehouse on 1st and 10th shows up real good here.  Note the trees and small buildings in Crells where Vale Produce or Webster Coal’s office.  It is now where it stands.  There’s lumber on the side, perhaps -- I don’t know whether Stone Lumber’s there or someone else at that time.  Notice the house and trees back of the old fire station.  Previous to Vale Produce, you can see the empty space all on 1st Street South.&#13;
&#13;
Course, as I mentioned, there was no subway on 11th Avenue South and under the railroad tracks.  I remember, in the thirties and even forties, [00:09:00] the old tracks were still on 3rd Street South, and especially 11th Avenue South and North as the old Interurban ran to Caldwell and Boise years before on these tracks.  Most of them where removed in either the forties or early fifties, but I believe in the later forties.  In the picture, you can see the new service station, built in 1937, of CB Oil.  Look at the old cars.  The office building was the one I lost in 1972, although it did not, at that time, look like this picture, as, well, I’d remodeled it, inside and outside, but that’s what it was like those days.  That building, you remember, was lost by fire 1972.  It was arson, and it burned to the ground.  Notice the large grain elevators in the background on 9th Avenue South.  [00:10:00]&#13;
&#13;
Now, here’s another picture, and it goes back a long ways.  There’s Mr. Earl Crooks and the old Dr. Pepper building, as I call it.  I don’t know what they used to call it before that.  I refer to it as that.  Because there was the - latter years after Mr. Crooks is out there, there was an old Dr. Pepper bottling plant there.  That’s where Price &amp; Vernon’s now located.  In 1920s, CB Oil, one time, sold three quarters or 75 percent of all products sold in this valley.  Another company was Fletcher Oil Company in Nampa.  Mr. Crooks was very proud of Nampa, and between he and I, we belonged to the Chamber of Commerce from 1920 to 1980, when I sold.  That’s 60 continuous years.  In fact, here’s a plaque of that, given to me by the Chamber of Commerce in ’81.  [00:11:00] He always put, on the bottom of his calendars, and also on the ads in the papers, “Speak well of Nampa.”  I like that.  “Speak well of Nampa.”  &#13;
&#13;
You notice, in this picture, Mr. Crooks and the old Dr. Pepper building, the Barco gas company or gas globe.  It fits on the old pumps they had those days.  The Vico Grease and Oil sign were refined at Salt Lake City.  That was called the Utah Oil and Gas Company.  Now, it’s American Oil or Amoco, which is a trademark, division of Standard Oil of Indiana.  I have several three-foot pictures here.  It’s a three foot six or eight, but they go back to 1923, but they’re in, o’ course, not Nampa.  If you notice these, just to be looking at ’em, they’ve all the old wooden derricks, and they were in Edgerton, Colorado.  [00:12:00] The Salt Creek Oil Fields, that’s close to Casper.  Looks like an enormous field.  I think American Oil or Center of Indiana would very much like to have these pictures, or at least I was informed of that.&#13;
&#13;
The next picture here is a three-foot, four-inch to six-inch or some—three-foot six-eight.  It’s the old Teapot Dome, 1923.  That was the old Mammoth Oil Company camp.  Somebody might have seen it.  Again, this is not Nampa, but while we’re looking here, this picture’s larger.  Three foot six to eight inches long.  Was it Main Street of Edgerton?  I believe Salt Creek Auto dealers occupied much of this picture, with oil derricks in the background.  Note the old Ford and Chevrolet garages.  Used car departments look sad after seeing ours today.&#13;
&#13;
I have one more large picture like this, but I haven’t framed it or [00:13:00] done anything with it.  These are the ones escaped the fire.  All the other pictures that I had of many things in Nampa was lost in the fire.  So, I can’t do anything about that, o’ course.  They’re gone.  I did see many pictures.  If Claude Duval was alive -- I think he worked for the Dewey Palace as an accountant for all those years.  He was, in fact, raised around Nampa area, and Claude had more pictures, could tell more about Silver City, and De Lamar, and the Deweys, and all that they did than any man I know of around.  He was accountant for me for quite a while too.&#13;
&#13;
In the middle thirties, there weren’t many houses in Kurtz Addition.  The college, of course, was there, but not the library, and then the new library, of course, we have now, or the dorms.  They were constructed in more recent years, and, o’ course, our new PE building there, they’ve got, is beautiful.  [00:14:00] 3rd Street South, as we know it now, from 10th Avenue towards 1st Street, was not Automobile Row.  That was only residents.  There wasn’t a car garage there at all.  Where the First Interstate Bank now stands was Co-op Oil.&#13;
&#13;
Later, Mr. K. W. Edmark, Dave’s father, built a garage and had a car dealership there.  Before that, Mr. Edmark was down on 13th Avenue on the west side, and he had his garage in there.  Ed Dewald then moved with his Studebaker agency into the -- let’s see.  That would be about 224 11th Avenue South, where the Bank of Idaho is.  And he was there after Mr. Edmark ’cause Mr. Edmark built what is now Dan Wiebold’s Ford building.  [00:15:00] That nice brick building that was built on the corner of 11th and 3rd, where Interstate is, it was torn down, and they built the bank.  On the opposite side of the street, where Provident Federal is, was a Ford garage.  A.E. Lindsay and Son’s had that for many, many year.  Course, when Mr. Edmark moved and went to where they’re at now and built the new garages, then, Ford moved down there, and Provident Federal built in that location.  (pause)&#13;
&#13;
Let’s see. What else could I tell you?  ’Cause these things just kinda pop to mind.  Speaking of these CB Oil pictures, this picture of Mr. Crooks [00:16:00] -- and moved to the present location on the quarter of a block that we’ve occupied since, and with the other quarter block’s warehouse in the back.  Something rather humorous was when I was out the -- took out the floor.  I was pourin’ the concrete floors.  I found the building was on brickbats, and they left the sagebrush under it, undisturbed, and bothered to pull a bit of it up.  That was a Buick garage before CB Oil moved into it, and it had a floor of wood on it, and when we cut through that, when we found the circular floor in it, and I was told it’d been the old Nampa roller rink for a long time.  I remember, 1940, I was talkin’ to John Berry -- he was one of our drivers -- and he said he spent a lot of time at the rink, skating there, when he was a kid.  And he was 50 years old then, so he said, far as he knew, [00:17:00] it was 75 years old that he could account for, but how much more, he didn’t know.  So, it’s one of the older buildings in Nampa.&#13;
&#13;
Then, under the circular (laughs) roller rink floor was another floor, and I forget who occupied that before they put the rink floor on top of it, but there was another company back before that.  The golf course on Northside Boulevard was built mostly by Mr. Crooks.  Tom Pool, Ron Scott, and Mr. Crooks owned the golf course.  And, of course, you know, I, of course, (inaudible) for doin’ the book work and seein’ the bills were paid ’cause Mr. Crooks had three ranches also, so between the golf course and the ranches, I was always trying to find my drivers.  He would take them and take them out to (laughs) work with him.  I didn’t know where they were about half the time.  [00:18:00] When he would get on a project, he wanted to finish.  Then, we had 120 acres out in Dry Lake, but we didn’t do anything with that.  He gave it (phone rings) to a niece later.  (break in audio)&#13;
&#13;
Okay.  After that telephone call and interruption, we’ll go back.  We sold the golf course later to the Elfs?, and it was later sold to the Country Club, and we gradually gave the ranches to his relatives or sold them.  The rental houses was a -- we had was a joke during the Depression.  (laughs) I remember, one day, Mr. Crooks mentioned I hadn’t been collecting the rent.  It varied from a number of months to a number of years since some of these ladies had paid, and he said, “Let’s go, and I’ll show you how to collect from those women.”&#13;
&#13;
Well, their husbands had left them [00:19:00] some time before that, and, o’ course, they had no income.  There wasn’t welfare then, and it was rough for them, and we went the first house, and the children were cryin’.  He asked her what was the matter with them, and they said, “Well, they have nothing to eat.”  Went to the next house, and it was worse.  They hadn’t eaten for three days, and the little kids were all crying.  So, he says, “Let’s go to the office,” and we got a new pickup, and we bought groceries for the three houses.  We had all the backs of pickup loaded, and it was near, I believe, a holiday or something, and I think he gave ’em a complete dinner.  It might have been Christmastime.  I don’t remember.  Turkey dinner and the trimming.  He had toys for each child, I remember.  And so, we went back.  We parked the office.  I said, “Mr. Crooks, I’m sure glad that you went along with me.  I know how to collect [00:20:00] rent.”  (laughs) He smiled and said, “Don’t you ever tell that before I die.”  (break in audio)&#13;
&#13;
The Lincoln, Parkview,  Centennial, Center Ridge Schools were added.  Then, the school district office moved to South Canyon, where they’re at the present time.  Owyhee Shopping Center on 12th Avenue Road South.  The Holly Shopping Center, Karcher Mall, were later year editions.  UP Railroad was very active for years, and on 2nd Street South extension, but was closed when the diesel locomotives came into being thanks to John Louis continually calling strikes in the coal mine.  The PFE shops had a workforce [00:21:00] of approximately 650 people.  Finally dwindled down ’til it was closed, and some personnel sent to Nebraska yards.&#13;
&#13;
Marine wood, potato processing plants, a new sugar factory, seed companies, trucking firms, more major oil companies were springing up everywhere.  The Nampa Industrial Corporation was formed.  Mr. Crooks and I were elated about this corporation bein’ started to bring new business to Nampa by having the land available.  Also, constructing buildings, et cetera, to make the dream become a reality.  We immediately purchased ten shares of stock.  The dream of about what could be done has proved to be good.  It proved to be a good idea.  Drive around in that area and look at all the many -- look at all the businesses.  I’ll not go into detail, as the city has the records [00:22:00] of the many new churches, businesses, new Mercy Hospital, rehab centers, special care center, doctor offices, and et cetera.  &#13;
&#13;
During the early thirties, one cannot appreciate Idaho unless they were in Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, and other central states.  The seven dry years took its toll.  I have seen trees in Nebraska where the leaves and bark were completely eaten off by the grasshoppers, and they died.  It was, as I say, seven dry years.  I have worked in Missouri, and when -- we could see something coming towards us, and we thought it was a storm or clouds from the west, but it proved to be the dust blowing out of Kansas, and pretty soon, it was so dark, and you had to have a handkerchief over your face and [00:23:00] hurry to get home because the dust was so heavy, and the wind was blowing rather rapidly, rather hard.  And you could see dust, dirt piled up ’til you -- oh, you couldn’t even see the fence posts in Kansas.  There’s places it would blow up around the barns and houses and go right up to the gable and be sloped down, just be completely filled.&#13;
&#13;
We just, for about 18 hours that we worked for about 50 cents a day, and I mean we worked every minute, except for a few moments to eat.  And everyone was out of money.  We see problems now with some of the farmers complainin’, and they’re losing their homes.  Where I lived in Missouri -- California, Missouri, between there and High Point, there was only, oh, maybe a half a [00:24:00] dozen homes that Missouri State Land Bank didn’t take.  We were fortunate enough to be one of ’em, and they let me finish payin’ it out.  So, I don’t think, where we have an irrigated country like this, that they even begin to realize how bad it was back there.  O’ course, you can go to any of the picnics out at Lakeview Park, and you can hear these stories over and over from so many that left those states, all the central states.&#13;
(break in audio)&#13;
&#13;
Reminiscing a little more, thinking back, Showalter Chevrolet was where the old Salvation Army thrift store is now located, as I recall.  And then, he moved to where the CPA offices are now located, on 2nd Street South, between 10th and 11th Avenue.  Course, that later burned, and he went out of business.  I believe in 1940, I bowled [00:25:00] -- and by the way, that was the (laughs) last time I bowled, when the old Salvation Army thrift store building after Showalter was gone.  A bakery occupied that building, also, a later day.  I believe it was American Bakery.  And I’m not sure whether anything was in that after that, before the Salvation Army thrift store went in.  It was closed for some time.&#13;
&#13;
I helped start the Nampa Exchange Club in 1949.  I was secretary for three terms.  Malcolm Rossman, or Melo Rossman, as we affectionately called him, of the Case Furniture Store, was the first president.  I worked two or three days after we got our club started, helping Jack Whiteside organize the Caldwell Exchange Club.  I believe Nampa had approximately 120 members, and Caldwell around 100 to 110 members.  I [00:26:00] still have the large menus from the Dewey Palace hotel.  Caldwell used Dewey Palace for their charter meeting also.  Menu’s about two feet long or more.  Probably about two feet, and they were double pages.  Rather elegant affairs.  We had a little bit of humor on what happened to both clubs.  Jack Whiteside, from national, helped organize the clubs.  He was the best salesman I ever worked with in my life, but he spent all the (laughs) money later that was to go to the national office at Toledo, Ohio.  Well, he spent all the moneys for the dues, the initiation fees, everything, and it was on wine, women, and song.  He ended up in Boise Penitentiary.  I was president of the club in 1966.&#13;
&#13;
I’ve enjoyed seeing the Salvation Army work progress.  [00:27:00] I’ve been on that board for many, many years.  Captain Robert and Linda Rome are doin’ good job there now.  They take care of the needy.  When Captain Scribin was here, we added the Bible school classrooms on the 4th Street side.  Most of the board put up the money and paid for that.  Was a good addition.  I’ve been workin’ there, as I say, for many years as chairman of the board there during 1963 and ’64.  This year, the chapel, which is the upper floor, has been completely remodeled, and new carpet and furnishing.  It looks very nice.  Nampa’s proud of the Salvation Army, and it works, what they do.&#13;
&#13;
Many changes since the time I arrived in Nampa has taken place.  Home Federal Place, the Kenwood School, the Central School became the sixth grade school.  Two new junior highs were added, South on 12th Avenue Road and West on Midland Boulevard.  [00:28:00] The old high school on 3rd Street and 5th Street was closed, and the new campus-type high school on 12th Avenue and Lake Lowell was constructed.  And these other schools that I mentioned while ago, which I had this out of line, but should have been -- it was also brought into being.  (break in audio)&#13;
&#13;
Ruth, many of these questions that was on this first page -- tell me what it was like to live in Nampa in the twenties, thirties, and forties.  When I came here in the thirties and forties, it was very nice.  I liked it, but much of this doesn’t fit because I came alone.  Why did your family come?  My family did not come here.  And how do you feel about various things that you might talk about?  What was your first impression of the area?  Well, (laughs) of course, as I mentioned, it was [00:29:00] 40 below when I left there and 40 above here.  I thought it was heaven, really.  It was great. &#13;
&#13;
And Saturday nights, o’ course, was a big night.  Your fifth question on here.  Everyone was in town on Saturday night.  (coughs) Excuse me.  And later, Friday became the big night, I guess, but for many, many years, I remember we’d go downtown Nampa, and I’d get so disgusted ’cause you just could not get on the sidewalks.  There was too many people, and it was just crowded all.  Wasn’t much else to do.  Everyone had to go to town on Saturday night, and there was a few dances and a few things going.  And why did it happen that way?  I don’t know why.  I think it was just what they’d been doin’ for years, and they continued.&#13;
&#13;
How did the railroad affect your father’s business?  Well, we didn’t have a business, here, of our own, and so, I can’t answer many of those questions.  Most of this doesn’t apply to me too well [00:30:00] ’cause when I came here and the latter part of the thirties, I worked for Mr. Crooks and the CB Oil, there, until I was out of it in 19-- end of ’80.  Long as he lived.  While he was alive, I managed the business from then until he died, I think, in 1962.  I bought the rest of the balance, two thirds of the business, then.  And so much of this doesn’t apply to me.&#13;
&#13;
How did Nampa react to Prohibition?  Well, (laughs) I hear all kinds o’ stories about that.  I know where a lot of jugs were hid that they talked about.  Lot of the people in Boise would come over and reminisce in our office with some of them.  What went on during those days?  They had quite a time.  Well, One-Eyed Moore, as they used to call him, over in Owyhee County, over in [00:31:00] Heart’s Creek on the way to Triangle, you didn’t dare go in there unless you was noted to him, but he made the moonshine.  Transportation, o’ course, was a railroad, mostly.  The Interurban, o’ course, was great.  Had the old early automobiles.  I guess --&#13;
&#13;
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                    <text>Louis Reichart:    -- scared all the horses to death that was pullin’ the buggies, or surreys, or wagons.  What was it like prior to World War I?  I don’t know in Nampa.  I wasn’t here.  I was too young.  And let’s see what else you had here.  (pause) I don’t know much about the Roaring Twenties.  I suppose it was something like it was in the central states, only not as much as the eastern states, o’ course.&#13;
&#13;
As I mentioned some about the Depression, were business conditions like?  Tell me about business, banks, and failures, and bank closures.  We had a lot of ’em in the central states when I was there, but I don’t know if there’s too many here, enough to affect it like it did back there.  No one liked the Depression, and, again, business was bad.  [00:01:00] We carried accounts after I came here.  It was back in, oh, ’35 or so on until World War II, before they got them paid out, but we didn’t do anything with them.  You just let ’em pay as they could, and went ahead and carried ’em, their accounts, and kept the farmers going.  Nampa, I think, was good as a down-and-out, better than far eastern states.  I don’t think the hardships is what a lot of them say.  It, naturally, wasn’t good, but it was not like the central states.  And elections, I don’t know whether (laughs) Depression affected that too much.  Everything went more democratic all the time.&#13;
&#13;
The New Deal, o’ course, put people to work and brought us a lot of deficits.  Then, ’til now, while that should have been stopped later, but something had to be done at the time, [00:02:00] but it went overboard, and seemed like the Congressmen still don’t know how to keep from being carried away in their giveaway programs, buying votes.  And, o’ course, farming communities didn’t get a good price out of their product.  It did affect ’em.&#13;
&#13;
Second World War, I remember well.  I went out to that 120-acre ranch off Amity as you -- that we had in the company.  As you go out Amity Avenue and hit the Ada County line, you look off to the right, and you’ll see some silos and couple of houses on that ranch, and we had just put up new equipment, new buildings there, and a new barn, and all new metal head gates, and a new steel post fence around that 120.  We’re getting ready to put the cattle and everything on it.  I remember when Pearl Harbor hit that day, [00:03:00] that was the day I was supposed to get married, Virginia and I were, but I couldn’t get my house ’til the next Sunday, so we had to postpone that.  And we were renting a house from a railroad couple that was getting a divorce, and it was brand new.  No one had lived in it.  Everything was there from garden hose, mop, broom.  She just said, “Take it, and move in it, and take it over.”  Well, I had to pay 35 dollars a month for all that furnished, but we squeaked out enough to pay the 35 dollars.&#13;
&#13;
I remember we went out to ranch that day ’cause Mr. Crooks said the house was about done.  He’d left it on the lot, and he wanted me to look at it and look at buildings, and Virginia and I drove out there.  When we came back, the wind was blowing hard, and it was blowing dust and papers all over the town.  I could tell something was wrong because everybody was running and handing out papers, and the paper boys were screaming something.  And so, I flipped the radio on the car, and we could hear about the bombing [00:04:00] of Pearl Harbor.  The POW camps in this area I felt was a bad deal, where these Japanese people were taken out of here.  There’s families that live around here -- not mentioning names -- and they had one or two boys in the service, fighting for our country.  Then, they took their folks and the younger children, put ’em on the coast, in the camps, and they lost everything they had, and that’s something that was never right and has never been taken care of properly.  (pause) &#13;
&#13;
Well, the fifties, sixties, and seventies, I don’t know how much we need to say about that rather than all these improvements that we mentioned.  All those have pretty -- you know, that speaks for itself.  I think, as I mentioned before, the Nampa industrial area, the new schools, the churches, all the things that have been built speaks well of Nampa, as Mr. [00:05:00] Crooks used to say, and I’m like -- he was, I think, a great deal of Nampa, and it’s a place I want to live.&#13;
&#13;
I’ve seen beautiful places all over the world, and I’ve traveled large -- not all of it, but an awful lot of it, and I see a spot here and there, but when you take the government, and take away people -- take the way people live, and compare it with Idaho and with the United States, there just really isn’t any comparison, and let’s hope and pray that, as time goes on, we’ll straighten out these deficits ’cause we don’t have to have them now.  Isn’t necessary to have them this bad.  And all this giveaway stuff that they just come to accept -- well then, let’s do whatever’s necessary and get the thing straightened up in the next few years.  We can’t do it overnight.  It would be too big an [00:06:00] adjustment, but let’s just make Nampa a bigger and better place to live.  Thank you, Ruth.&#13;
&#13;
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                <text>Louis describes many Nampa buildings and city developments, and discusses his involvement with the Chamber of Commerce, the Nampa Industrial Corporation, the Salvation Army, and the Nampa Exchange Club throughout his lifetime. He notes the importance of local figures such as Dr. Kellogg and Earl Crooks.</text>
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                    <text>RICK COFFMAN:  How old are you?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN MCDONALD:  Oh, 74.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	When did you first come to Nampa?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  1918, the early part of ’18.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Where’d you come from?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Eagle.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, Eagle.  So you didn’t come here from Kansas or –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN: No, see I was born in Canada, crossed the line at the north of Ferndale, and that’s where my sister was born.  Then we came from Ferndale to Bellingham, and Bellingham to Meridian, and Meridian to Eagle, and Eagle to Nampa.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And you’ve been in Nampa ever since.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  Well, except during the war time.  I went -- I left during the war.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Where’d you go then?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  I went over on the Defense list in Portland.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, in the shipyards?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Mm-hmm.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What brought your family to Nampa?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN: Well, my dad [00:01:00] followed construction work for a time, and he came over here because there was an opening for work.  He worked for the Carnation Milk company and drove a milk truck for years.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And is that what he did in 1918? &#13;
&#13;
GORDAN: Yeah, well. This is before ’18.  I mean, before we came to Nampa.  He started driving there, so then that’s what made him decide to move to Nampa, and then he was closer to his work here, actually.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	But he came here to drive trucks for Carnation.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN: Yeah.  Let’s see, I don’t believe that’s what it was called then.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Was Carnation located in the same place it is now?  Or where was it then?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN: No, Carnation was located out there on the north side, you know, by that place that they used to call Sugar Beet Lake, [00:02:00] which is where this new -- what’s this press out there.  You’ve got that building – &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, Pacific Press?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Pacific Press down there.  See they built -- they built on the north side of the lake, and Carnation was over on the south side.  Part of the building is still there, but it’s called some kind of a can company now.  But it was quite -- one of the big industries in Nampa at the time.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What’s the first thing you remember about Nampa?  The first thing when you moved here in 1918?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	When I started school.  I started school there in Kenwood, and I think one of the –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Kenwood is now where Home Federal is? &#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, uh-huh.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Go ahead.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	But I think that -- the biggest news [00:03:00] item thing that happened just a block and a half away from our place there, between Sixth and Seventh Street on Seventh Avenue, they were putting in a trunk line for the sewer, and that caved in and killed two guys and put a couple more in the hospital.  It buried a lot of them, but they dug most of them out.  I remember that so well.  I was picking berries with my dad up in the upper lot and all this, and the big steam engine down there started blowing whistles because I think there’s problems over there or something, you know, well let me run over there. And there was one guy that got caught on a chain bucket.  He was just getting out of the hole when we got there.  There was another guy who was buried and just his hand was sticking up, and he was waving it around  and they dug him out in a hurry.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	When was this?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	[00:04:00] Oh, that was in the early ’20s, I want to say around 1922 or starting there somewhere.  They took the dead guys and they put them over on -- a friend of mine, Gordon Longwood, lived out on the corner, and they put them on the cots up out on his lawn, and well, Gordon Longwood came up to me and said, “You want to see something?” So he took me over there and he raised up the blanket, and this fellow named Whelan got squished between two of these big planks.  Oh, he was a mess.  That’s the biggest fresh news item that I -- big thing that I remember.  We used to start out from home -- we lived on the corner of Sixth Avenue and Eighth Street.  When we used to start out from home, we could walk straight to the city hall.  The [00:05:00] blocks were all laid out you know, but we cut across from one block to another, and we could walk from our house straight to city hall.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	To the -- where the -- oh, I see, where the –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	The old city hall.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	-- where the old city hall is.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, without -- without turning any corners, we just cut across lots and we’d see -- wasn’t many places built along there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What were there -- back in the late 18-- or 19-teens and early ’20s, were there -- what were the roads, and what were the -- where did the town begin and end around here?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, I am trying to think about that.  Now, Twelfth Avenue seemed like the pavement had come down to Twelfth Avenue to about the middle of between Second and Third Street, but now I’m not positive of that because on Second Street, between Second Street, on Twelfth, between Eleventh and Twelfth Avenue, that was a dirt street because right in the middle of [00:06:00] the block there they had one of these big horse drinking troughs, you know, and the mud was always knee deep there.  And going the other way -- but I think there was pavement that came down through there.  It might have stopped right at that corner because right next to the old city hall used to be a great big -- oh, it was an enormous big livery stable there.  It seemed like there wasn’t any pavement in front of that place.  Now, coming down Eleventh Avenue, it seemed like the pavement stopped right there at Second Street, because there where the Idaho Power building is now, that used to be the Interurban Depot.  And from there, again, then the track went down to Third Street and turned towards Caldwell, and that was all dirt there.  &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	So there weren’t -- there weren’t many paved roads.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	No.  Just –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Just a few –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	-- a little bit through downtown, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	[00:07:00] Where did the -- where did the town sort of begin and end, in today’s terms?  I mean, somebody -- somebody living in Nampa today, if you had to say, “Here’s where the town sort of -- here was the boundary on the Caldwell side.  Here was the boundary on the Boise side.  Here was the boundary on the Melba side of Nampa.”  Where did Nampa kind of begin and end?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, I -- the fire station was between Ninth and Tenth Avenue, but they were kind of out in the country, it seemed like.  The town really started, oh, between Tenth and Eleventh Avenue, on First Street, and went to, well, it went to between Fourteenth and Fifteenth Avenue, yeah.  There was a garage over there.  The Chevrolet Garage was located over there between Fourteenth and Fifteenth at one time.  And then south, it just came out -- well, city hall was [00:08:00] the last, but a block away from City Hall was a blacksmith shop, and that was all the trail that went that way.  All where that theater is over there, that was all empty.  There wasn’t anything there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Where the -- where the Frontier Theater is now?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Is that the cross street from the city hall?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, where that’s at.  But there was that big building on the corner, and they used to have -- they had dances upstairs there, and down below was the grocery store.  But that was the only building on that corner.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	So city hall was sort of the border on one end of town.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  Yeah.  See the town was only a couple blocks deep this way, and about three blocks the other way, so it wasn’t -- there wasn’t too much there in the middle.  Of course, the railroad track broke it off the other way.  And all there was on the other side of the tracks was, oh, that Gowen Machine shop there on Eleventh Avenue front and First Street north, and then [00:09:00] a block away from that was what they called the Spanish hotel.  That’s really all there was on that part of town.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	How did people basically get around?  Now, you know, you jump in the car and you go.  Did people ride bikes?  Did they walk?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  No, walk, and, well, there was a lot of horse and buggies, and Model T Fords.  Horse and buggies and Model T Fords, there was a lot of them.  I remember one time when some guy came in town here with a Baker Steamer.  I think half the town turned out to watch.  It was quite a wagon.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	With a Baker Steamer?&#13;
 &#13;
GORDAN:  A Baker Steamer, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What was that?  That was a car?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  That was a car.  It was a steamer.  They had a -- [00:10:00] it was powered by steam, with this steam generated by a wick like a coal oil stove, you know, back in that -- that generated the steam and the steam ran the car.  That thing used to start up down the road and it could move, I think, one mile an hour, and then nobody ever did have it wide open or it would go too fast.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, the guy wasn’t just visiting here.  The guy bought it and brought it here.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  No, I think he was just visiting because it was only here a short while.  Just like several years later, some guy came to Nampa with a -- one of those old Stutz Bearcats, I think that was in the ‘20s series, and he parked in front of the -- in front of the bank down there, so everybody went down to look at it.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What about entertainment?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, of course we had the Majestic Theater, and then we had the Liberty Theater, which was [00:11:00] down there on almost the end of Fourteenth to First Street, almost to Fourteenth Avenue there.  And on the corner of that place was the All Electric Bakery, so there was Electric Bakery and then there was the Liberty Theater, and then there was the Liberty Sweet Shop, and then I think they had some vacant lots in there, and then in the old building that’s there now, I think Fifer’s has it. &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well but mostly people went to shows a lot?  Is that – &#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What else?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	But they had two things that used to happen every summer.  There was what they called the Chautauqua.  You’ve heard of them.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Mm-hmm.&#13;
GORDAN:  They used to come once a year, and they used to set up down where Central School now is.  That was a vacant block, and now they used to pitch a tent in there and have the Chautauqua.  They stayed, oh, [00:12:00] a couple weeks every year.  Then there was another –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Could you explain to me where -- could you explain what went out at a Chautauqua?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Chautauqua was a group of people that came in, and they took local citizens’ talent and made stage players out of them.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  And then they’d put on shows.  And I was fortunate enough to get in on the animal act.  But yeah, they used to have some pretty good plays there.  That’s what they were, and they were just plays put on my local talents.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You -- and you were in on the animals?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Well, I used to get in on the animal act.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	How did you get in on the animal act?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, I used to -- that was one thing, when we always -- used to always do.  When the circus would come to town, or that used to come to town, boy, we used to go there and volunteer to help or get little chores, you know?  And then we got a free pass to the shows.  And then there was another outfit that came, and it only come a couple or three times.  [00:13:00] I’m trying to think of the name.  I want to say the Miller Players, but that just doesn’t sound quite right.  They brought their own troupe in and put on a -- they put on a big show, and I’ll say they pitched their tent there, too, and they would stay a couple of weeks, but they -- they were only here maybe like two or three years that they came.  They didn’t come every year like the Chautauqua did.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Okay.  What were -- you said there were two things that happened every summer.  What was the other thing?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, those two, and then we had the theaters, and then every so often the circus used to come to town.  The last circus I -- that came to Nampa was Al G. Barnes, and that was before they had that big split up, I think.  That would be in the middle of the ’20s.  It was the late ’20s, I think. They used to pitch their tent over there across the street [00:14:00] between Second Street and Third Street, on that vacant lot across the street from where the city hall now is.  That used to be a big vacant field there.  Oh, I remember that one year, Phyllis Canal runs back there, and the guy took the elephants out because it was hot weather, to give them a drink of water, and they got away from him.  They got in the canal and flooded over the banks and washed some of it out.  (Laughs)They had quite a deal. So they had some agreement with the city that they could water the elephants there, but only a couple at the time.  I used to like to go there and get in there early and get in the cook shack of the circus.  There you got all you wanted to eat and could see any show in the circus, side shows or anything.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And you did this because you were in the -- you helped out with the circus too?  Or –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	[00:15:00] Yeah I -- well, I’d go there and help pitch their tent and all, and serve -- wait on tables, you know?  And then I got these passes, and then that could take me any place in the circus.  Of course the circus came there early in the morning, my -- well I used to carry papers and carry the Free Press, and the circus would come in early in the morning, and they used to tell us when they were coming in.  And they’d say, well, this guy used to say, “We’ll round up some boys,” and we needed all the help we could get, and so that’s what we used to do.  Oh another thing we had here in Nampa I’ve got to tell you about that one.  They made a hometown movie.  I can’t remember the year that was in.  I want to say around ’24.  I wasn’t very old.  Maybe in ’24. I was 13. They made a movie there in -- at the Dewey Palace.  Just a little [00:16:00] skit was all, and I was a paperboy in that.  I seen that movie several years later, but I think it was -- the film was destroyed when the Elks had that big fire here a few years back.  And I think -- I want to say, always wanted to say, Richard Keim was a star in the show, and I thought his brother was the villain.  I’m not -- I can’t positively say that.  I talked to Mrs. Keim about that once, and she says, “Well if he was, he never did tell me about it.”  Well, it was such a short skit, and he was only in high school then.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Who -- was it the Dewey family, or somebody contracted the film?  Or who did the film?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	No, no.  Some -- some outfit came to town, and they went from place to place, and that’s the way they made their money, I guess, is shooting film and developing it, and then taking it down to local theaters, show it, and people would go down there to see it.  [00:17:00]  There used to be all kinds of ways to make money back then, anyway.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What about schools?  You went to school here.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What – &#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	I went to Kenwood School.  Cleared through Kenwood School and then I went to the high school -- Nampa High School.  I took my freshman year, and, well, my mother was sick.  Well, when I was going to eighth grade Mother got hurt, and we went to the hospital, and I couldn’t continue school, and I had this opportunity to go work for the Free Press.  That was in ’28, so I went to work for them.  So I finished one year of high school anyway.  And that was in ’28 [00:18:00] because I would have graduated in ’32.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What did you do at the Free Press?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	I started out as a sterotyper. &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	A what?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	A sterotyper. &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What’s a stir -- stair, like S-T –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	S-T-E-R-O-T-Y-P-E-R.  Sterotyper.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	S-T- what?  Would you spell that again?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	S-T-E-R-O-T-Y-P-E-R.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What did that guy do?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, we made the lead casts of all the different -- well see, nowadays you have all your line drawings and everything like that were lead casts then.  Here’s how it’d be --  So there’s my big mounting pot, there and there, and there’s my casting box, now [00:19:00] that’s the place -- that’s the hole that I worked in.  That’s kind of a better overall picture.  And here behind the pot is the saw they used to saw that up in.  That big casting box, everything was type high, which is -- I can’t tell you exactly what it is on inches anymore, but we used to put a mat in this box and then you’d put these bars on the side.  Those were type high.  Then you’d turn it up one end and you poured hot metal down there, and then it solidified.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Okay, I understand.  Well then you, you know, just in the newspaper business, and you saw a lot of changes from –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Oh my gosh, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	From hot metal to –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, this is all done by hand then, and first they had linotype done because [00:20:00] I can remember when I was a very little kid, Jim Allen would operate the linotype that belonged to the Free Press, and they had this, oh, where the Simla Hotel was now, across the alley from the library now.  And I used to watch him run that machine, little knowing that I would eventually go to work there.  Then all our type, anything bigger than what you read in the paper, you know, your body type, anything bigger than that is all hand set.  You had the type cases, and you set it by hand.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You worked in a print press from 1928 until when?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well then I -- then the union sent me away to Boise to finish my apprenticeship, and then I came back here, and that was about the time the war broke out, and so then I went into defense work, and then I came back here.  [00:21:00] Must have been about ’40, I would say ’42 to ’46.  I was gone about four years there.  I finished my apprenticeship up at the Boise Capital News in Boise.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well an apprenticeship can -- how many years did that take?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Six years there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Jiminy Christmas.  So you’ve got 1928 to 1934. So you must have come back here for a while and then left for the war.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And then after the war you -- after the war you were here.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, well I came back actually in ’46.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Until you retired.  When did you retire?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, ten years ago.  Let’s see.  When I -- [00:22:00] when I was 65 -- I was 65, and then I worked on until June, which would make me 65 and a half, and then that would be ’76.  1976.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Is there -- can you remember, looking back, that there was one thing where you thought to yourself, you know, this town is changing.  This is becoming a bigger town.  Or this town is changing, and -- can you remember back when something that sort of made you think to yourself, “Nampa’s -- this isn’t the same Nampa I came to in 1918?”&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	I don’t know.  Actually I can’t really say of any one thing.  I noticed the gradual change all the time, like when they built the new depot across the track there.  Of course you know they tore the building down.  And they built that new bank there where the First Security was, [00:23:00] which is now the library, and they built the new post office where it now stands.  That used to be -- well, that used to be the Free Press’s -- it had a baseball field when I was working there then, and that’s where we used to play, and then the post office kicked us off and built a building there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Really?  That used to be a baseball field?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, that’s where we played baseball.  Yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	So there wasn’t one -- any really big singular event that changed Nampa.  It was just a gradual change.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, that’s the way I would say.  Now, every year they had what they call the Harvest Festival, and that was always located on the streets downtown, and that used to run from oh about roughly in front of the Dewey Palace down to not quite Fourteenth Avenue there and then from, you know, a little ways down in front of the city hall up to the old [00:24:00] depot there.  And of course the rodeo, that was -- what was that called?  That was called I think just a bucking contest.  It was held in the daytime, and they held that out there where they’re now holding it, the stadium, but at that time, that place was out there, that was where the Nampa town team played baseball, and where Nampa High School played football because they had bleachers there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And they also had the rodeo there?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	And then also the rodeo.  They didn’t have -- oh, and that also had a racetrack right out in the middle because I rode -- one year I rode a little white mare in the races, and they were running and running, but a guy named Kingster had a racing stream and he talked me into riding [00:25:00] his little white mare.  Gosh, she was a beautiful horse.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Now, where was this place located?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Up where the Stampede grounds is now.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, see, that used to -- that Stampede ground used to go clear and -- and they took in that baseball field they now have.  When they -- when they built these bleachers and then the shoots, they cut all of that off and made a smaller stadium.  There used to be a big, long racetrack.  They used to play football, and they played baseball there, too, so -- it was kind of an all-purpose stadium I guess.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Did -- when you wanted to go someplace, when you wanted to go someplace from Nampa, how did you get there?  Was Boise where people went around here, or did people kind of pretty much just stay around?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	They pretty much stayed there because there wasn’t much going.  Now the road between Nampa and Boise back at that time [00:26:00] was all gravel roads.  That’s the old Highway 30.  Now at that time, you’ve got to picture in my mind how that went.  Now it seems to me like it went straight ahead up Airport Road, past the Gray’s orchard, which isn’t there anymore.  Then it made a left hand turn, and you came off at what you called Dead Man’s Crossing.  And the reason that was called Dead Man’s Crossing because the streetcar track used to come right down and follow that old highway, and it came down to Tieg’s Corner and that came up where the road now comes up, you know.  And there was a row of trees there, and back in those days, they didn’t have such thing as a stop sign, and there was more people coming down that hill and meeting that streetcar right there.  So they started calling that Dead Man’s Crossing.  That was the first dead man -- place they called Dead Man’s Crossing, and then just a half mile on past that, [00:27:00] there were several people killed by the train there, so they transferred the name from there to there, but this was mostly caused with the streetcar accidents that they had.  Because there was a big row of trees there, and you couldn’t see the streetcar coming for nothing.  Now, everything I’m telling you is the way I remember it.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, I’m sure.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Another guy is gonna tell you something different.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	(Laughs) So, you know, today you and I just don’t think much of jumping in the car and going to Caldwell or going to Boise or something like that, but back then, that was sort of a major –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah.  I remember once my old man took us all to White City Park in Boise, and we left early in the morning and got home late at night because it was -- it was a trip to go from here to Boise.  And you drove about 20 miles an hour.  Yeah, I remember even when I was in my early teens, a guy that drove between Nampa and Boise, [00:28:00] if he’d gone 60 miles an hour, he was speeding because that was all gravel road, so.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Was the -- was the one thing that Nampa was built around there -- everybody tells me the one thing was the Dewey Palace.  Did everything begin and end with the Dewey Palace?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	It seemed like it because you would say that was your meeting -- meeting center, you know, and all business things, transactions, and things were all discussed there.  And I guess for all the years I can remember there used to be people coming from all over.  Say, Dewey Palace used to have a deal where they met all the trains, you know.  They brought the people there.  Of course it was only a couple blocks away that they had all of them taken over.  I remember a big old car that they had, [00:29:00] kind of like -- well, they used to call them stages then.  And -- but from what I gathered, or the talks that I heard, they used to do that back in the horse and buggy days, and had horse and buggies there.  Now, when I lived here that turnaround in front of the Dewey Palace, that was being used all the time.  There was always cars driving through there, and I -- I know that -- I know it was probably, we didn’t have such a thing as a taxi around here then, but it seemed like it was quite a few years later when they started a taxi service in here.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You ever remember -- who’s -- you ever remember, like, Colonel Dewey being around here, or was that just a name you heard, but you never really saw the guy?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	That’s right.  I never had seen him, no.  [00:30:00] You think when you’re young like that, you don’t pay much attention to that stuff.  I used to like to go into the Dewey Palace and go into the lobby because it was, oh, luxurious looking, and, like say that big clock they’ve got in the city hall now, they claim that was there.  And I can’t specifically say I remember, but I used to go in there any chance that I got and look around.  Of course, when I used to carry papers, that was part of my route.  See, I had the downtown route, and it was nice.  It was a really nice place.  Now when Jim and Kathleen got married, why, that’s where Jim held his -- oh, all the guys in his party, his wedding party, he rented rooms up there in the Dewey Palace, and that’s where they stayed.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh is that right. [00:31:00] What about any other Nampa landmarks?  Were there any other things that made Nampa -- that were kind of distinctive?  You know, I don’t know -- you know, obviously I haven’t been around that long, but -- like the Hasbrouck House?  Or were there other big things of when you were -- when you were younger and you remember saying, “My gosh, that’s really something?”&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, no, not really.  You see famous things that kind of stand out in your mind, like one thing that always seemed like it was impossible to work, and that was how they used to put coal in the train engines down here.  They had a big ramp, and the place where they used to pull these coal cars way up high in the air, and then of course they tripped the bottom out and the coal would come down in chutes and go to the trains.  That’s the way that the trains were done, and that always seemed like quite a piece of machinery to me, to stand there and watch that run.  [00:32:00] Of course there was another big building project they had around here was when they built the underpass.  Now I can’t tell you when that was built because --&#13;
&#13;
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                    <text>&lt;a href="https://nampalibrary.omeka.net/items/show/705" title="KKK Inter-State Convention"&gt;KKK Inter-State Convention&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                    <text>RICK:	[00:00:00]  All right, I guess we’re going now.  They’ll have to edit this.  Anyway, they wanted to build it wide, but the stores on either side objected?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  Yeah, there was probably a tussle about that.  Well, I guess they would have had to shut their doors, but so anyway they built it narrow in there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Because if they’d have built wide it would have cut the stores out.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, they wouldn’t have had any -- any way for any traffic to get up to them except for walking down the sidewalk, or going through the alleys.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Any -- you remember any famous people visiting Nampa?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Oh, that I wouldn’t know except [00:01:00] Harry Truman came through one time.  Of course I was working at the Free Press then, and I didn’t even bother going down and seeing him.  That’s when he was campaigning out of the back end of a train car.  So that’s about the only thing I –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, so your first famous person you remember.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  I guess there was a lot of famous people, but I didn’t pay any attention to them.  Because that Dewey Palace used to draw a lot of -- a lot of people.  I used to see a lot of people that came there, and they looked like they were very well off, but of course, you know, the Dewey Palace at that time, that was -- this was before Hotel Boise was built, and it seemed like they centered out of the Dewey Palace.  From what I gathered, Dewey Palace had a reputation all over the United States.  It was really something.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	[00:02:00] You were talking about that -- that accident involving the sewer trunk line.  Do you remember any other major disasters, major accidents in Nampa that -- I’ve been told there were some explosions and some other kind of stuff.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Well, yeah, there was.  This was in -- in the ’40s there was an explosion of a restaurant over there on -- between Thirteenth and Fourteenth Avenue on First Street there.  It was a gas explosion that killed a lot of people.  You’d have to go into the files to find out anything about that because it happened, and I know at the time that it happened why -- we thought it was an earthquake because it made such a -- you know, I swore to God it shook the earth.  It was a biggie.  [00:03:00] What’d you say, drastic things.  I was working for the Free Press, and my brother was working for the Ford Garage, and he used to have to get there at 7:00 in the morning to light the fire because it was cold in the wintertime.  And I used to leave and right there at the corner of Tenth Avenue and Third Street, and he’d go a block to the Ford Garage and I went up two blocks to the Free Press.  And while he was coming along that dark side of the Ford Garage he stumbled over a dead man.  Come to be it was this guy Frank Nichols who was on the police department.  He was shot there.  Well the way the story’s supposed to go that somebody broke in there and -- on the alley side, and came around on this side where they done mechanic work, and he walked up there and put his head up against the window and was looking through the glass like that, and they shot him right through the eyes.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh really.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	But [00:04:00] later on it came out that the window that was broke out where this guy supposedly made his entry, the glass was on the outside.  So we never did hear the outcome of that story.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What was that policeman’s name?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Frank Nichols.  Oh, before he became on the police department, right, back in those days they used to have what they call railroad bulls that used to watch the freight trains come through, and any hobos that got on there, they’d kick them off.  And this guy used to like to jerk these guys off and beat ‘em senseless.  He was a mean son of a gun.  So I wasn’t really surprised that anybody wanted to take a pot shot at him.  He was one tough railroad bull. [00:05:00] Outside of that, I don’t recall anything more.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	When was this, that -- when did that happen?  Do you remember when that Ford Garage thing happened? &#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  You know, let’s see.  I was married in ’33.  I would say it was around ’30 or ’31.  Somewhere around there.  Might have been a little bit before that because -- that’s -- let’s see.  Well, this is back about the same time this picture I’ve got here.  This is -- well, that’s a guy named Don Young.  He was advertising manager and circulation manager of the Free Press, and they had this turkey parade.  So he made up that outfit for the turkey parade.  And there at the Dewey Palace at that time, they were going to give away some turkeys.  And the way [00:06:00] they were going to give them away -- they were going to throw them off the balcony.  And they did.  And the crowd down there literally pulled the legs and the wings and everything right off that thing.  In fact, had guts all over everything (laughing) -- they only done that one year.  They quit that.  (Coughs) That corner of Twelfth Ave and First Street, that used to be the -- oh, what do you call it?  The gathering place for anything Nampa had or anything they’d put on.  Like at Christmas time, they’d put up a Christmas tree there, and the Elks Lodge would give away candy, and it was always held at that corner.  So anything that went on, you know, it was always right there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Do you remember what year that turkey thing was?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	No.  Let’s see.  No, I don’t.  [00:07:00] No, I can’t -- I can’t tell you that.  That must have been see ’28 or ’29.  Could have been ’28, ’29, somewhere in there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Late ’20s, huh.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, late ’20s.  And then one year they had one of these crazy guys came in with -- behind the Dewey Palace, on that very outside, on the corner of Twelfth Avenue and First Street, if you had a picture of that, you would see those little things are step back.  He climbed clear up there, clear up into the top of it.  That’s all he had.  He just climbed like that.  Then he got up there and tied a rope on the railing up there and he done a few crazy [00:08:00] swings and things.  That was crazy.  I expected to see the damn fool slip and fall off.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You know one of the things -- one of the impressions I get is that you’re talking about the parade and that kind of stuff.  It seems to me that maybe there were -- because you couldn’t leave town as easily as you can now, and because you had to kind of stay in town and rely on your own -- on your own self for entertainment, were there a lot more parades and community type activities?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah.  Yeah.  See, Mayview Park wasn’t there then.  That belonged to Dewey, and they had a -- that had a big, high fence all around it.  And I remember that because one time the Chautauqua outfit, they got permission from him to have some kind of a picnic up there, and they took all us -- all the people that put on these shows and all the Chautauqua, we went into that place and had this picnic.  And it seems to me like [00:09:00] that that lake was there then.  It just seems like it was.  But at that time, Kirks Park was quite a place for -- that’s the park out by the Nazarene college.  That was quite a place for gatherings.  In fact, I can remember when I was a kid, the Ku Klux Klan took it over one time and burned a big cross out there, and had quite a show.  &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You know, we’ve got a picture of that down at the paper.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Oh, do you?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, of the Klan marching, and that was like in 1923 or something like that.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, that’s about right.  Used to have -- Holy Rollers used to come to town all the time.  Theirs was just dancing.  And they used to set up their camp over there on Sixteenth Ave and First Street, and one night a bunch of guys got together and at a given signal, everybody tied a rope and knocked the tent down on top of them.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	[00:10:00] And were you in on that?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	No, no.  I was just a little kid then.  I don’t know how come I was there and I seen it done, but it was just a funny incident that happened.  Then when Nampa had that -- when the Indian creek flooded over, I thought I read something about this in one of those books about that, but it didn’t seem to be very clear about -- the biggest of the north side was flooded over.  We used to have an underpass there on Sixteenth Avenue, a subway there, and that thing filled up about three quarters of the way through with water, and a lot of the homes were flooded.  I don’t know whether it was down over the golf course or someplace there, there was a jam that got formed and the water all backed up through here.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	[00:11:00] There was a subway there?  At the – &#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, there was the Sixteenth Avenue underpass.  It was about wide enough for people -- two cars if you were really, really careful.  The water stayed in that hole for a long time, because us kids used to get in there and there was a big old door there, and we used to float around through that, going under the railroad track, and we used to paddle back and forth.  That stayed there quite a while.  I don’t know why that was still there when they decided to build the overpass there now.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, see, by the time I got around it, it was an overpass there.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah.	&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What kind of a relationship -- do you remember, you know, that it’s kind of changed over the years.  There are less and less migrant workers around here now, but how were -- how were things harvested?  How were the -- how were the fields and agricultural interests around here tended to?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Well I’ll tell you, [00:12:00] really before I went to work for the Free Press, that was one of the things I’d done.  I used to -- and they used to let the schools out -- boys out of school to pick potatoes and things.  And I used to work on -- travelled in a bunch, and we went from one hay field to the other and, you know, cut up the hay, stayed through the thrashing, and we used to get a leave of absence from the school to do that.  A lot of -- lot of the young fellows in the school did used to work in the field, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	So that’s how a lot –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  That’s how most of the field work was done.  Now, I used to do a lot of weeding onions.  Back in those days, you’d crawl in on your hands and knees, you know, and done it with a little hand tool.  Now I notice the Mexicans go along with a big hoe and chop it off.  We used to do it all by hand.  Like picking potatoes, why we used to pick those in a wire basket and dump them [00:13:00] in the sorter that was pulled by one horse right down the middle of the road.  And thrashing, that was always a big old thrash machine that stayed close to the barn where you want your straw pile, and all the grain is hauled in there and picked in the separator and that’s one thing my old man done also while he was hauling milk during the daytime he used to run the thrashing machine.  I used to do a lot of hay.  I started out driving dairy when you drive the horse, the team of horses or one horse, whatever -- how big a load you’re hauling.  Used to pull up and used to -- what did they call that?  That dairy.  [00:14:00] Anyway, you’ve seen them.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Mm-hmm.  You still see them every now and then around.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  You don’t see any of them working though.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	I think I’ve seen one of them by Meridian working.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Oh?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	I think a guy just has it.  I think he just wants to do it so he keeps it going.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  They’ve got it to pay full time in Jackson Fork, they call it.  Stick it down in the hay and then you’d holler and then the derrick driver would start up his horse and cable was pulled up and it reached the top and then it would go and the guy on the stack would direct it where he wanted, and he’d yell, and the guy on the ground would pull the jerk rope and trickle down.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Let me ask you another question.  What about things that we take for granted today, like you and your wife going to the grocery store and buying stuff.  What -- how did people eat, and what did they eat?	&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, I don’t know.  Most -- practically everybody in town [00:15:00] that I can remember had a garden, because that’s one of the jobs I used to do in the spring years go down and spade the gardens -- with a shovel, mind you.  I made some spending money that way.  But yeah, they had the grocery store.  Now, we bought our groceries mostly from a place they called Lone Star Market that was located on the corner of Seventh Avenue and Third Street up there.  Back in those days, you know, you didn’t walk in and pick out your own food.  You walked up to the counter and you’d tell the clerk, “I want one of these, one of those, and one of them,” and he’d run all over the store and got it for you.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh is that right now?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah.  And you know, they had -- there was that store, and then we had -- well, we had two butcher shops in town that I can remember.  One was Keim’s and the other one was [00:16:00] Mercantile.  I can’t remember.  So one was down between Thirteenth and Fourteenth Avenue, and the other one was -- Kind’s Market was right across the street from the Dewey Palace there.  They used to do their own smoking and stuff right out in back.  They didn’t do their butchering there.  There was a place out here, across the street from where -- what do you call that now?  It used to be Cane’s Packing Company.  Now it’s got a different name to it.  Anyway, across the street from that was a place called Anketell’s.  Yeah, the other market was Anketell Market.  And they used to do a lot of commercial butchering there.  It was bigger than King’s, and then King’s started up a slaughterhouse over on the other side, and later on it was sold to the outfit that’s running it now.  [00:17:00] What do you call those meatpackers?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Armor?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Armor, yes.  You know, that was King’s.  That’s the reason that corner out there is called King’s Corner with that King’s slaughterhouse was there.  But -- let’s see there.  I can say there was that big grocery store there across the street from the city hall, and oh, Falk's Nampa Dean had a big grocery store over there in the back of their building.  That’s that building.  It is now kind of a restaurant, I think.  On the corner of -- those cross streets, and probably it was on the corner of Thirteenth Avenue and First Street there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, I don’t -- I can’t -- I think it is, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	And that used to be the Falk's Department Store, and it had a big department store down below, and even back towards the alley they had a big grocery store [00:18:00] there.  Upstairs was all offices then. &#13;
 &#13;
RICK:	So I mean on a -- so it was a combination of people growing their own stuff, plus you -- but you could -- there stuff was available to buy.	&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Oh yeah, yeah.  It wasn’t the dark ages.  Yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	What was the land like around here?  Was it barren, or sage brush-y, or what?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN: Well, when we first came here, there was sage brush right across -- right there where the post office now is.  In fact, in there, that had sage brush.  A lot of sage brush out here, yeah.  Yeah, in fact, that’s what we used to burn.  We used to go out -- the nearest we could get it, you know, and drag it out and bring it home and put it in a big pile and then burned all of it.  And it kept getting further and further away back in the ’40s got so far [00:19:00] to hold you couldn’t -- you couldn’t use anymore.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, I would think that in the earlier days in Nampa, that was one of the main things they burned first.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, coal, if you had the money, but if you didn’t have the money, you burned sage brush.  I used to like the smell of that smoke, too.  &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	The smell of the sage brush smoke?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Uh-huh.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	A lot of people burn it in the winter.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Oh yeah.  They had great big piles in their backyards.  It was always me that got to grow that bush.  Some farmers used to take four or six horses and drag it -- they pulled behind them and dragged [00:20:00] it all across the sage brush to break it down, and then you’d go pick it out, back when he was clearing some of that land.  Only other thing they used to have around here was rabbit drives.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	They had rabbit drives around here?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Oh yeah.  It was mostly over there by the lake.  I didn’t like to go swimming.  Those darn rabbits used to cry like babies.  The last drive I went to was -- no, I didn’t go to that one either.  It was just between here and Caldwell, on that point, just about where that outdoor theater is now.  We had a point of land that sticks out over that way, and they drove them up to that point.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	How would they do it?  Just a bunch of guys would get in a line?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	It took a whole bunch of people getting in line, and [00:21:00] they all had clubs, and they’d make noise and walk and drive them into a -- well, like a point or a blind place or something to corner them that way.  They’d set up, like say like that point of land there.  They’d set up a --just throw up a fence around there like that, and then they used to come back and drive all towards this point, and that’s where the big slaughter was.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And then they just hit them with clubs?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  Those things could sure cry.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Did they get a lot of rabbits?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Oh yeah.  They weren’t any good because they had that -- some kind of a disease, or you would peel them, and underneath their skin there was blisters, big water blisters.  So they weren’t edible.  [00:22:00] If you found a cottontail, now the cottontail didn’t get that.  There were a few cottontails around here, and if you found them, well, you would eat those (inaudible).  Another way we used to -- we used to make a little money in the fall when they shut the Phyllis Canal down, the water would go through down and it left puddles, pretty deep puddles.  We used to go out there and -- with pitchforks and catch the fish.  We used to bring them home with a tub full, and sort out the good fish and take them down to the butcher shop, and the culls, there was always somebody who wanted them on the field or something.  That’s just another way to make a dime.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You’d sell the -- sell the culls to farmers?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	[00:23:00] No, we gave -- we’d give those away.  We knew that we had to take them out somewhere and dump them in the sage brush, but the good fish, you know, like trout and perch and -- what’s that other one?  Anyway, they were good eating, and you could always sell those.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Sell them to the meat market or the farm?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Oh, we used to sell them to people, even down the road.  Had to sell them right away or they’d spoil.  Once they had a pitchfork through them (laughs).  The only -- reminded me, one time I was over there on the coast, and the neighbor guy came out, and he says, “Hey, come on, let’s go where the snout are running.”  So we went up some little creek out there by Silver Creek Farms or somewhere anyway.  And oh, there was hundreds of people out there catching these snout.  And it just reminded me of when they used to drain these ditches (inaudible).  [00:24:00] People all were catching them with a pitchfork.  That’s why we (inaudible) because we didn’t have a pitchfork.  Well otherwise the water would drain away and they would just lay there and die.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You keep talking about you used to pick up a little extra money selling fish or –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Apples.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	-- apples or something.  How -- when you talk about picking up a little money, how much did you get paid for this kind of stuff?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Oh, yes, if you made 50 cents you were rich.  Yeah, I’d say a working man made -- if he made three dollars a day, he made big money.  Did work for the city -- city owner. I’d go up, and I went to work for the Leader Herald.  That was before ’28.  I went to work there doing janitor work and helping put the paper out, and I got 50 cents a week.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Three dollars a day was big money back then.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Mm-hmm.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Your first job was [00:25:00] what?  How much?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	I got 50 cents a week working for the Leader Herald.  That was -- that was before ’28.  When was that?  I don’t know.  I done it after school.  I wasn’t very old.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well when you would sell the fish and the apples, or when you would go dig somebody’s garden for them, would they give you a dime or something?  Is that usually (inaudible)?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, or 50 cents, 75 cents generally you got, what you averaged.  And the average garden plot, you know, we used to -- well, we would do it after school, and that would take you almost a week to get it done.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And for that you’d get 50 or 75 cents?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Oh yeah.  Yeah, and big -- like this lawn here, I mowed this lawn about this size and get 25 cents for it.  We mowed lawns in the summertime, and [00:26:00] my brother was a hustler, you know.  He was always lining up work like this, and like with the apples, we used to go out here.  Well, over on the path that property now, there used to be an orchard out there, and we used to go out there and get apples, and what did we get for them?  Or we used to get between 10 and 25 cents a bushel.  The good ones were 35 cents a bushel, and the cheaper ones were 10, but I can’t remember what this guy sold them to us for.  After he sorted them over and then he’d throw a pile out, and over there is a stock so we used to go buy them off of him, and then we could go down to the pile and sort out what we wanted.  Yeah, we worked out here at [00:27:00] oh, what was the name of that big orchard out here?  Out Orchard Avenue.  I can’t remember the name of it.  We used to go out there and when they pruned the trees, you know, and the branches, they’d lay them right on the ground.  They used to take a team of horses and a slip.  A slip was -- it’s like a big board, just like a hay rack bent without wheels, and just slide around on, and we’d pick up the brush there, and we used to work -- do that 50 cents a day in February.  And yeah, there wasn’t really any place to spend money.  Now we went to movies.  When we were kids this -- they built this new theater there, and it was between Twelfth -- First and Second Street on Twelfth Avenue and outside the road there was [00:28:00] Electric Bakery in there, and they built a theater there they called the Grand Theater.  It wasn’t very wide.  It was only about four or five rows just here on this side of the aisle, and then four or five rows.  And they used to show pictures there, and that used to cost us a nickel for the show.  &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Do you remember –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Hoot Gibson.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Is that -- I was going to ask you.  Who do you remember in the old movies?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, Hoot Gibson, Ken Maynard, and oh, what the heck was that other guy?  He always looked so mean, but he –&#13;
RICK:	Who was it -- Hoot Gibson?  Who else?  Ken?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Ken Maynard.  These are all cowboys, yeah.  (inaudible).  &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And another mean-looking guy. &#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, what the hell was his name?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	[00:29:00] What about -- what about people like W.C. Fields or Laurel and Hardy, those kind of things?  Were they around here then?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, when they started coming in, yeah, that was quite a bit later in life.  When they came, you know, they -- their movies -- we used to go to them, but that was quite a bit later.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	All right.  Do you remember going to movies that were -- were all the movies you went to, were they talkies?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  No, these are all silent before that.  I remember Buddy -- Buddy, Buddy, Buddy, Buddy.  What was his last name?  I think the show was called “Wings,” wasn’t it?  The first talking picture that came here?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	I don’t know if it was.  Well I think that was the first talking picture, wasn’t it?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  That came to the Liberty Theater.  [00:30:00] Oh hell, they had him on TV last night.  They gave him an award or the –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, they gave him the Hersholt Award, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN: That Hersholt Award, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	He married Mary Pickford.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, I remember her.  I remember her, gosh, boy that was acting in those days.  All the gestures and everything, but they didn’t say anything.  A lot of -- lot of movie stars lost their job when they started having talking pictures because their voice wouldn’t modulate or something like that.&#13;
RICK:	The first talkie was at the Liberty Theater?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  Well that I can remember, yeah.  (inaudible).&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, I saw that last night.  I don’t know -- Buddy Rogers.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Buddy Rogers, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	He was the -- he was the other one you kind of remember?  Hoot Gibson, Ken Maynard, and Buddy Rogers?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, I remember all of them.  [00:31:00] I can see it, but I can’t tell you what their names are.  I’ll say this, the Strand Theater used to show these -- a lot of these Western pictures, and it cost you a nickel to go.  Oh, and by the way, they used to have -- there was something to do with a Buffalo nickel.  You had -- you’ve seen a Buffalo nickel, huh?  Well they had a series of pictures of Buffalo Bill I think, and you had to have a Buffalo nickel to go to it.  And Rick, you wouldn’t believe, we’d go to silent movies, and the kids and stuff would be yelling and hollering so loud your head would feel like it was gonna bust.  Let’s see if you read everything on the screen, so there wasn’t any -- [00:32:00] didn’t curb the noise.  When they switched over to start putting on the talkie movies, why it was hard to keep the kids quiet so you could enjoy a movie.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, I hadn’t thought about that.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  No, I reckon that when they had that --&#13;
&#13;
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                    <text>RICK:	[00:00:00] You were talking about silent movies and how when that changed, you know, kids used to yell in the silent movies because there was no noise to worry about, and then in the talkies you had to kind of keep everybody quiet.  Then you said, “Boy, there was one other thing I wanted to tell you.”  Do you know what that was?  I kind of broke your train of thought there.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  (inaudible) Oh, I don’t know.  I remember the first Phantom of the Opera movie.  That was made by Lon Chaney -- not Lon Chaney Jr., but Lon Chaney.  That was shown at the Majestic Theater and they had the pipe organ in there then.  That was a silent movie with the pipe organ, and boy was that a scary thing.  I remember going to that one.  The Majestic Theater was kind of like you would say the elite theater here in Nampa that had the best -- the best shows and everything like that.  They used to put on, you know, [00:01:00] miniature stage plays, but nothing elaborate.  I didn’t get into most of those because I didn’t -- I never cared much for that.  The skating rink we had here was on the corner of Ninth Avenue and First Street.  That building is still there, by the way.  [Webster Kahlo?] has got an office in there, and there’s some pizza place on the corner.  There used to be a skating rink on that –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Roller skating?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  I think a fellow by the name of Richards used to own that, and he later sold it to King’s, and then King’s went over and built the roller drome.  That’s all over a period of years, now.  I’m sure his name was Richards.  [00:02:00] My brother, like I say, Norm, he used to always doing something.  He got a job in there putting on skates so he’d get to skate free, and then he got me in there.  So that’s when we first started skating if that was a thing.  That was quite a place for kids to go.  And just a half a block away was the fire station that had a great big bell up on top, and at 9:30 they used to ring that bell.  That was curfew time.  And if you didn’t start heading for home, well the cops came after you.  I can remember old Sam Hunter being the night -- the head night policeman or something like -- well, he sure used to run us there across the street.  Speaking of cops, about that time they had a -- they got a chief of police in here.  I don’t know where they found him.  He was just a little wiry guy.  I don’t think [00:03:00] he weighed up over 150 pounds.  But he was mean.  They -- that was when Nampa bought their first motorcycle.  Now that’s where I kind of get this other book that they had.  Anyway, they bought their first motorcycle and this is before they had the underpass there, and all that gravel road on the other side of Eleventh Avenue coming into the railroad track.  He was chasing a guy, and this guy made the turn right there into the -- to the depot, and he slipped on the -- well, his motorcycle slipped and flipped him up against the wall and broke his leg.  He used to walk through town with -- on crutches, and if you happened to be in front of him when he walked down the street, he’d just poke you with his crutch and push you out of the way like that.  He was a mean guy.  He didn’t last long.  [00:04:00] I don’t know whether anybody shot him or not, but they should have.  Another thing they used to do in the summertime around here, you know, they had these baseball teams.  Caldwell had their team and Nampa had theirs, and they used to play up at that -- what was that place called?  Before it became the rodeo (inaudible).  But they used to hold baseball games there, and I can remember Sam Hunter, this cop, and there was a guy that owned a[restaurant right across the street -- well right next to where Bullock’s now is there now.  And he didn’t like the way some umpire called something.  He jumped down over the railing and started -- pulled the heck out of this umpire, and old Sam Hunter had to come break them up, and I guess they both turned on Sam and beat him up too.  There’s always some kind of entertainment going on around here. &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Were there different events in town?  The Chautauqua, the baseball events, the parades and all those things.  Were they all well attended?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN: Yeah, it seemed like everybody would turn up because that was the only thing there was.  When they used to have these Harvest Festivals, everybody came out.  Of course, they came in from miles, you know.  Farmers used to come in and everybody in town was out used to go down.  It just seemed like it was just a gathering place where they could sit around and gab and talk about the price of butter, I guess.  But everything -- like any small town, I guess, everything was community oriented or just -- you know, [00:06:00] and if something came up, well, everybody went.  And on Saturday nights -- Saturday nights in Nampa was really a live one.  Because everybody went to town Saturday nights.  If they’d done nothing but walk up and down the streets, you’d meet people and say hi, and most of the boys used to chase the girls, and Saturday night was it.  All the rest, during the week, well.  And something kind of off the record, but I think it’s true –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You’re saying not -- you’re just saying that.  Not much happened except on Saturday nights.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah.  Yeah, always Saturday nights, there was always something.  All the stores would have sales and things like that, and things used to go on (inaudible).  [00:07:00] Seemed like that’s when everybody came in and took a Saturday night bath and then came to town.  I think that’s when we took our bath, was Saturday nights.  Of course we didn’t -- we didn’t have sewers then.  I can’t remember what they’d done downtown but I know where we lived out in there we only had outside toilets.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Everybody had outhouses?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Mm-hmm.  Yeah, there was cisterns, and things like that.  And we had had a mess here in Nampa when they started digging up the streets and putting in the sewer line.  That was back when they only had to dig in that big trunk like that.  Everything -- practically everything around here was done by the teams.    &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	[00:08:00] The teams of horses?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  The bigger the job, the more horses you put on it.  You didn’t see very many trucks.  There wasn’t any of them big enough to do it (inaudible) job.  Used to -- they used to move houses around here once in a while, and they had a -- had a big old spool, and this cable would go back, and they had these houses set up on these -- well they looked like big roller skates, and this team of horses used to go round and round like that to unwind this cable at that old house and move it along just about that speed.  Now they put them on a truck and they’re gone.  But yeah, it used to take them all day to move a couple blocks.  Oh, going back to that fire station, the reason they put that big bell up there was [00:09:00] they had a fire department.  I can’t remember how many guys were there.  Seemed like two or three or something like that, and whenever they had a fire they’d ring this bell, and guys all over town would drop their work and run.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	They had a volunteer fire department too, partially.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, partially, yeah.  In fact, one time I was with Ernie Starr when he was first in office, talking about some problems.  So I stopped in wondering, I said, “Why the devil don’t you start that back up again?” I said.  “You don’t need all these men standing around doing nothing.  Why don’t you just have a standby crew and then call for volunteers?”  He laughed me out of there.  But no, that’s the way it was done.  That’s the reason they had this big bell ’cause when they rang this bell, that was the sign for the volunteers to, you know, gosh.  And they had a fire, why there -- [00:10:00] seemed like there’d be a hundred people there.  Everybody would be helping ’cause they -- the old pump wagon didn’t pump so much, so they did a lot of carrying water from the neighbors and stuff like that.  &#13;
RICK:	Everything was wooden construction back then.  Was there a lot more fires?  Or --&#13;
GORDAN:  Oh yeah, a lot of fire.  Yeah, and the funny thing about it, you used to hear the fire bell ring, and you just scanned the horizon, and if you see smoke, that’s it.  It always seemed like when they had one man, it was curtains.  Because boy, once they got started, they used to really burn.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Nothing to stop them.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Not really, no.  See, most of the houses were built with two-by-fours and rough siding on the outside, and the inside was [00:11:00] boards covered with wallpaper.  Now when a house was laughed and plastered, it was one of the ritzier houses.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Okay.  Anything else?  Have I left out anything you want to talk about?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  (inaudible) seemed like all this territory here, there was nothing.  Of course in 1946, when you moved here, why, our house, and there was a basement house over there and the white house down there, but that was the only houses down here on Tenth Avenue.  Wasn’t really anything down that way, and Tenth Avenue, well, it stopped right out there and there was just a muddy road down here.  That was in ’46.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Do you remember when you first moved here [00:12:00] how many people lived in Nampa?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  No, I don’t.  They were scattered around, probably.  Like I said, when you start out from there and walk straight to town, you’d cross lots that looked like they could have been houses.  And –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	The old Nampa city hall must have been -- next to the Dewey Palace -- must have been the biggest structure in town.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  The Dewey Palace and then the city hall, yeah.  Yeah.  You know, oh I don’t know.  There was some taller old buildings that were a pretty good size.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Those two must have just dominated everything.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  Well, you think behind the Dewey Palace they had the -- oh, when Dewey built that Dewey Palace, he built their own water system, so he put up this water tank.  Well, if you’ve seen pictures of that.  And then the city hall, they [00:13:00] -- after they built the city hall, well, they built a water tank there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	That was still here when I moved here.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Oh, was it?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Mm-hmm.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Then on the other end of that block, Nampa built another water tank, but they tore that one down first.  I seen them build that tank and I seen them tear it down.  Of course I seen them tear this other tank down, too, between -- I seen that one being built.  Me and my buddy Lloyd Easterbee, we climbed that one behind the city hall.  I climbed about halfway up, and one night we dared one another to climb it.  He climbed clear to the top.  There was a catwalk around the top, and he climbed up there.  I climbed about halfway, got scared, and come down.  (Laughter) [00:14:00] Now there was always used to be things to do, but they were always having things over on the lawn at the Dewey Palace.  (Inaudible) Maypole dances, and there were all kinds of things.  There was -- they seemed like they, during the summer months, they always had something to, for kids to do.  You had little kids that used to do the Maypole dance.  You’ve seen them here.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah.  They get all –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Now, I was going to see -- yeah, I know what you was gonna say, but they also had a Maypole dance.  They had a great big pole and had high school kids do it, and they (laughter) those little kids done a beautiful job.  When it come to that (inaudible), they had that all set up.  Though I remember one guy said, you know, “Little kids are smarter than the big ones.”&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	[00:15:00] Well, let’s see.  I can’t -- I can’t think of anything else.  I better get a few more details.  Married, and your wife’s name is Mildred.  You’ve got one -- two kids?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Two kids, yeah.  Jeannie and Patrick. &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	They both live here in Nampa.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  This sounds more like an autobiography than anything.  Oh wow.  Keep it handy.  I might need it.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well, when I write this you won’t even recognize it probably.  When did you get married?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Thirty -- there’s something. Thirty-three.  Flag Day.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	That’s right.  You were telling me about that.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  [00:16:00] The Eagles Lodge had a convention here.  They’d put conventions sometimes here it was held in Nampa.  And they wanted something for -- probably an attraction or something.  Anyway, so they ran things in the paper about people that were going to get married that would try to get married in this public deal that they had up at the park, and Mildred wrote a letter in, and I guess they selected the letter and chose us.  Funny thing, you know, there wasn’t a photographer there.  But they had a bowl there, you know, on a half shell, and it faced this way, and we got married up in there, and then the Eagles drill team had the, you know, swords out.  [00:17:00] What do you call that?  Anyway, we walked through the swords.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	This was in the -- where -- where’d the whole ceremony take place?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Lakeview Park.  June 15th, ’33.  Then after that, I don’t think it was -- I think it was Homestead Motors gave us a big -- a big car at our disposal for the day, and then it had a chauffeur to go with it.  Anyway it wound up that night with us, there was a dance, a dance I think was held at (inaudible) Hall.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Were you the honored guests at the dance?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  You know, [00:18:00] we had to get out there and dance the first dance.  They had a thing or two.  On June the 15th, it was hotter than hell.  KFXD had a -- had a radio station here back then because I remember the guy -- seems funny, there was no cameras there, but yet this radio guy was there, and he just said, “I pronounce you man and wife.”  And so he turned around and walked away.  This guy reached up and grabbed me by the arm and stuck his microphone, and he says, “How does it feel to be married?” I says, “I don’t know yet.”  (Laughter) Obviously.  Oh, don’t put that down in the history.  [00:19:00] And for some reason either I want to say his name was Sherl Black but I’m not sure.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	That’s too bad there wasn’t somebody to take some pictures or something.  Nobody I guess thought about it.  It must have been a big deal even then to get pictures taken.  You know, now it’s so easy, but back then I supposed it was quite a process.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  You’re right, and the papers used those speed graphics.  One of the reporters there were five reporters? and they took it down.  I think they only took pictures on important occasions.  Anyway, it’s hard to get a photographer around.  And then we -- all of the pictures that we wanted to run in the paper, we had to send to Trent Balsner to get a zinc plate made, too.  [00:20:00] So that was always two days.  Took you two days longer.  But no, the wedding pictures had to go there.  And back then, they had a law that they said it was a woman’s day, so they wouldn’t run the man’s picture, and if they took a picture of the bride and ran that in the papers, but not the bride and the groom.  They said it was strictly a woman’s page.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Looking back at those first years here, would you change anything you did?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  No.  [00:21:00] Only my big problem is I wanted to be a doctor, but then that -- there was no way I could get the education for that.  And -- but I’m glad I got into printing because that’s something you have to work with your hands, and it’s constructed.  Every page, every ad was created.  You had to -- you had to build it.  You think like you guys nowadays, you make -- the ad man made a layout.  You made the layout, you know.  But back then, the printer done everything.  Everything come there, was dumped in the file you looked over here.  Well, where are they gonna put this?  So you’d start running around, and you made up the paper right there.  You used to have a big old press.  I can’t think of the name of it.  It printed eight pages at a time, [00:22:00] but it only printed in one direction.  And then when we got the -- then when the Free Press -- the Main Wire bought out the Free Press and the Meter Herald and combined them together, they had a duplex press.  It was the same thing as an eight-page flatbed, but it printed both directions.  It was twice as fast.  I can’t think of the name of that old thing.  I remember one night, well, the Free Press originally was a morning paper.  And one night they stripped the drive gears on it.  Of course, you know, you couldn’t get anything in there.  You didn’t have airplanes to fly anything, so a team of horses drove in and brought it.  But anyway, they -- Warner and Hughes worked all night long welding teeth on that thing and filing them off until we got the new gears in.  That was a -- that was an all night session.  I think it was all night and part of the next day [00:23:00] before the -- that paper finally got out.  I don’t know what happened.  I think something stripped up on the bed of the press and jammed the press and stripped the gears.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well there was more than one paper back then, too, wasn’t there?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Yeah, there was two papers, the Meter Herald and the Free Press.  The Meter Herald was -- well it was -- started out as a weekly and went to semi-weekly.  Then it went to daily, yeah.  I was working for the Free Press when that happened.  I worked -- when I worked for the Meter Herald, before I even thought I was going to be a printer, see I started there by sweeping the floors, and then I went downstairs and when they used to put the paper out you can help empty the hopper off of the folder, you know, and pile the papers up so the guy running the mailing machine could handle it.  That’s where I got my start, was there.  That came out two (inaudible).  And they were located [00:24:00] there where the Chinese restaurant is on Twelfth Avenue.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Hong Kong?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Hong Kong, it is, yeah.  They were located in there and the composing room and press was downstairs and the office was upstairs, and there was only just -- only half a building.  And probably wanted the houses here, and then out in back was where this Dewey Palace water tank stood.  And there was no building there, so there was that, and then the downstairs.  And that was -- that was run by Errol Guiness.  And Errol B. Guiness was postmaster at the time, yeah.  Errol Guiness.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Where was the first Free Press building?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, the first -- I don’t know.  The first -- when I first knew of it it was in that hotel building across the alley from the park and library is now.  That was their office.  There was the Free Press composing room [00:25:00] was on half of the floor, and then the other half of the floor was the job shop.  And then downstairs was the press room that pulled the stories and the staircase room.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, so basically it was across from where the Nampa Library is.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, across the alley.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, across the alley.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN  On First Street, yeah.  I think that was called the Seminal Hotel that was above it.  The hotel was (inaudible).&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well that -- let’s see.  That hotel was across the street from Hong Kong’s the Greystone.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:   Well, yeah, no.  I’m thinking –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, you’re up the other way.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, I’m talking about down First Street.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, I’m trying to think of; that’s the only hotel I’ve ever known about&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	I never even known about that one.  It was across the street from the Meter Herald was the Greystone Hotel, yeah, when it was located [00:26:00] where the Hong Kong is now.  There was the Meter Herald, and next door there was the B.A. Schmidt women’s apparel store.  I don’t remember what was the next one down.  And then there was vacant lot on the corner, and next to the vacant lot, a guy named Johnny Price had an electric store there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	How many stores do you remember in the downtown Nampa area were there?  I mean, now you couldn’t count them.  How many back then, do you think?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Oh, gosh.  I mean, there were more than just a few of them.  I can’t -- I couldn’t give you a figure.  I’m trying to think of a block -- you know where [00:27:00] that pawn shop is down there.  Yeah.  Peterson’s Pawn Shop there on the corner of First Street and Fifteenth Avenue, cross street there.  Well, take the two delis there.  There was his place, and then next to it in the upstairs there was a store there called Blake’s Variety Store, and that upstairs was just a balcony because there was a great big hole in the floor, and you could go upstairs and look down, you know.  That was Blake’s Variety Store, and then after they went out of business, they said goodbye to that and filled that floor in, and that’s where they made the Moose Hall that used to be a dance hall.  I remember that so plain because he had a parrot, and across the way over there, above that other store I forget what was there.  [00:28:00] Anyway, there was people lived up there, and they had a parrot, and those two birds used to talk to one another all the time.  It was great.  And then right there on that corner, there were -- where that pawn shop, there’s now the merry-go-round.  I always found a set there, and then on Thirteenth Avenue the Ferris wheel set there.  And that Ferris wheel seemed like it was tall as the building there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	This is going to sound like maybe a strange question, but were there a lot of -- I don’t know what made me think of this, but were there a lot of dogs, cats roaming around then?  You know, now it’s kind of controlled.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	No, no.  No.  God, no cats.  Dogs took care of that.  No, there was a lot of dogs.  Dogs were all over.  Everybody had a dog.  [00:29:00] They’d be running outside.  Dog people built fences to keep them out, but, no, it wasn’t until quite a few years later before they started putting restrictions on dogs.  I used to carry papers in the morning, and I used to -- well, I knew just about where these dogs were.  You always carried some kind of a stick or something.  Always remember one dog over there on the north side, and he was supposed to be a mean son of a gun, and I think he was, too, but he always used to meet me on this one corner, and I gave him a paper.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh yeah?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  I didn’t look if he ever subscribed or not, but I gave him a paper one day and he took it, and ever since then, he’d meet me on the corner and I gave him the paper.  See, we used to carry paper routes for three dollars a week, and oh, we carried between 90 and 150 papers, I guess.  And we didn’t [00:30:00] do the collecting.  This guy Don Young, he took care of all that.  We just carried the papers, that’s all.  Nowadays the kids sell the papers, and back then we didn’t.  I guess that’s my first experience.  I thought, well, I’d like to work for the Meter Herald, and I carried papers.  And the reason I got this -- had this route, number one.  Everybody wanted route one because that was the downtown district and you’d walk into these hotels, you know, and deliver them from door to door.  You carried 150 papers, but you didn’t have to cover any ground because it was all right there.  And I got this route from a Japanese fellow.  His name was Max Rossman.  He and his sister went to school.  His sister was in the same grade that I was in back then, and then later on I found I bought [00:31:00] this route, and I gave him ten dollars for it.  And Don Young was going to fire me because he said that wasn’t his route to buy, and I said, “Oh, well I didn’t buy the route.  I bought the bicycle.”  But I gave him ten dollars for his bicycle and the route.  And I quit my other route which made Don mad because that was the route that went way out by Sixteenth Avenue.  And I later heard that Max Rossman was killed in World War II.  He was a, you know, Japanese fighter pilot.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, was that right?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  And see I later heard about that through the grapevine, talking to different old timers and they said, “Well, you remember Max Rossman?”.  But there used to be a lot of Japanese people that used to come here like the Jap gardener.  There was one not long story.  A family had moved in there, and they farmed and just worked like the devil, and they made good money.&#13;
&#13;
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                    <text>GORDAN:  [00:00:00] If you take out the (inaudible) you got when you down (inaudible) by Hasbrouck House over that hand side going down, that was all gravel roads that ran along that side of the road was a whole big row of poplar trees, and then just over the bank there was another big Japanese garden.  That stayed there for quite a time.  And then you used to ride the streetcar into Boise, and seems it crossed over the Boise River going into Boise, and off to the left there was a great big Japanese garden.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	You know, one of the things that people that have lived around here for very long talk about, in addition to the Dewey Palace, was the old Interurban system. &#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  That’s the streetcar that went by.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, that’s the streetcar.  What -- that must have been the only way -- that must -- how did that -- where did that go, and how did that work?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, that started in Boise, which is now the post office.  That cross street from there, that was the [00:01:00] depot there that used to go underneath the building there.  That started there, and came down to Main Street, and then, well, went off Main Street, went across the Boise River, and run straight into -- and then went through –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Must have gone to Middleton.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  No.  Well, it did, but it went through -- oh, God.  Why can’t I think of the name of that little town just the other side of Meridian, between Meridian and Boise?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Star or Eagle?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, no, that’s on the other side.  This was on this side.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Kuna?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  No, no Kuna was right off over here.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well there was a town out there called Ustick.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Ustick.  You’d come through Ustick, into Meridian, turn through Meridian, and then you came down old Highway 30 and past Dead Man’s Crossing up over [00:02:00] the hill there by King’s Corner, and how exactly it got to Eleventh Avenue and then came down the center of Eleventh Avenue North.  Crossed the railroad tracks and the Interurban streetcar place -- depot -- used to be there where Idaho Tar is now.  They also had a little switch out that they could -- see, certain train, or cars, would come in, and they’d switch back and go back to Boise.  The other ones would come in, make that round corner, and go straight down the middle of Third Street ’til it got out about to where -- just past the canal there, and then it went over the left side of the street, and the road, and followed Third Street clear on into Caldwell, and that old place to set them up in front of the College of Idaho there, on the curb.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	The hat.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah.  There was a fellow – &#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, well it looks like a hat.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	That used to be where the people used to catch the streetcar.  Streetcar was on that side of us.  So you [00:03:00] sat there and we’d sneak our faculty straight into there.  Into Caldwell.  I can’t remember exactly how it went through Caldwell.  Then it went back and went to Middleton, Star, and Eagle and Boise.  That was the loop.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Did a lot of people use that thing?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah. In fact, the men car I remember -- how much did it cost?  Wasn’t very much.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	How long did it take?  I mean, how fast did the thing go?  Was it powered by electricity?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN  Yeah.  Yeah, it had a trolley up on top.  Yeah.  It could go either direction, too.  Because the guy used to pull his handle off this end, walk up that end, plug it in, and go back the other direction.  That was (inaudible).	&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well, I mean, [00:04:00] that was one of the best ways to get from town to town.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Oh yeah.  You could -- like if you’re going to Boise, why, I remember, well, I remember when we lived in Eagle, that’s -- and I was really quite low then.  I got a disease called dropsy, and the doctor over there shook his head and said that was that.  So my old man took -- I can remember this trip -- took me on the streetcar, and we went to Boise to a Chinese doctor over there.  And he gave me a bunch of medicine.  And then I came home.  One of the things they had to do every night, they had to lay down on the table and pile me up on a roll of blankets and pour hot water over me.  That was torture as near as I can remember.  But it must have saved my life.  But for years after that going on, some morning I’d wake up and [00:05:00] I’d have a foot swollen up.  I couldn’t get a shoe on, and my hand the same.  What is dropsy?  It’s a disease of the blood or something.  I don’t know where I got it or how it kind of came about.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	I never even heard of it.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  That’s what it was called then.  It’s probably got a great big long name.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	So the Interurban, how long did it take to get from one town to the other?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  I couldn’t remember.  I would say the thing traveled right around 30 miles an hour.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Oh, that isn’t bad.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, no, it rolled along, except when it stopped when cattle got in the way.  Cars -- seemed like -- people weren’t paying attention to the darn thing.  They just drove right in front of it and all.  It’s a good thing it had good brakes.  It had air brakes on it, but I can remember hearing them.  Did I say that dang corner, Dead Man’s Crossing, there.  There was always more [00:06:00] wrecks there to see.  You couldn’t see it coming, and you know, the streetcar’s quiet.  It didn’t make no noise.  It seemed like all it had on was a bell that went “Ding, ding, ding, ding,” like that, and they only rang that when they got in the city.  You couldn’t hear it coming.  And those tracks were near the street.  Like a train track, you know, you look down the side of the street.  These things were right near the street.  That old trolley used to go down the roads.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Now we’re -- tell me where that Dead Man’s Curve was.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Well, right there where the cheese factory is now, across the street from the cheese factory there.  The streetcar track followed on the south side of that, by Highway 30 there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And you said that the reason that the -- well people didn’t pay any attention was there was a row of trees there.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, there was.  Across the street from the cheese factory there there was a row of trees there.  [00:07:00] Well I know they used to call it Dead Man’s Crossing, and then they had -- they had a terrific wreck.  A bunch of high school kids from Nampa quite a few years later that were headed for McCall and I don’t know if they were racing a train or what, but that train scattered bodies all up and down that track.  So it crossed, and then the next thing you know, they’re calling that Dead Man’s Crossing.  Then I can’t remember when the road was changed to go from the cheese factory through down to King’s Corner, and off up that way.  I can’t remember when that road was changed exactly.  You see, once you start working, you [00:08:00] don’t run around in that general area.  But it used to be -- I remember when we used to go to Boise, we used to go straight up -- oh, it’s now Garrity Boulevard, but it didn’t used to be.  And that was before Lakeview Park too, and we went straight ahead up what they called Airport Road.  We went past Gray’s Orchard, and then they turned left there at the top of the hill and you came out at Dead Man’s Crossing and turned right and went to –&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	And that road’s still –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, the road’s still there, but I’d say that seemed like that was the way we used to go to Boise.  We didn’t go very often.  I remember that one time, my old man taking me to White City Park.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	I forgot to ask you one thing.  What was the first -- first car, first kind of mechanized travel.  Do you remember that?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	That we had?&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	That you had.  No, that you had.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Well, we had horse and buggies there for years, and then we bought a [00:09:00] yeah, an old Model T.  Yeah, an old Model T.  And then my mother bought a Durant, a Star Durant.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well you know, with everybody having horse and buggies, did everybody -- well, did everybody have a little kind of a shed or something for them?  What did you do with them?  What did you do with the horse and buggy when you weren’t using them?&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  We just parked it out in the back of the house.  Yeah, there were horses right down -- I’d say horses right downtown.  Everybody -- it seemed like every other place had a haystack behind it.  We had a barn at our place.  That’s where they stayed.  They stayed out there in back there.  [00:10:00] We had one horse and three cows there at one time.  I think that -- I think -- I’m not sure, but my mother had a milker out there.  She started selling the milk to this one and that one and the other person and kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.  Then we had a milk run, and I think it was one of the first milk runs in Nampa because it was -- and then there was another dairy that started up.  I want to say Lokehurst Dairy started up, and they -- they started up, and they had this barn on Seventh Street between Eighth and Ninth Avenue there.  [00:11:00] They had -- there was a big white house there and a big barn, and they had a few cows there, but they started out with buying most of their milk and pedaling it out that way.  And they ran several wagons, horse-drawn wagons.  Mom always carried hers in the buggy.  I wasn’t too big then, but I used to go with her because she didn’t want to go alone.  I used to sleep in the buggy most of the time.  And the old horse, her name was Nellie.  She knew that route.  She knew just where to go, where to stop, and she carried the milk at night.  We sold Jersey milk and this other dairy, when they started up, they sold Holstein milk.  I can remember that very plain.  [00:12:00] Did I say Lokehurst?  I think that was the name of it.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, you did.  Lokehurst Dairy.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  I think that was the name of it.  It seemed like he died either running it, or had a lot to do with it, and his name was Lake Everly.  And he -- back in the ’40s, he’s the one that started the -- what is now known as Nampa Auto Parts.  He started that business.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	I think he’s still alive.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  He lived on Tenth Avenue in Caldwell there.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Hold on.  Everly.  I think his -- my gosh, there’s Everlys over there.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  He was in the big house there on Tenth Avenue.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, the big brick house.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Uh-huh.  Yeah, I thought he died.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	I still see the -- when I used to live in Caldwell a few years ago, there was a signer called the Everlys.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  Yeah, I think that was his own.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	He had a bunch of -- he took the yard out and put a bunch of antiques and stuff in the front yard.  And he’d gravel it and put a bunch of, like, [00:13:00] mining cars, and that kind of stuff there.  I always thought to myself, if I bought that house, the first thing I’d do is put the yard back in.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  He’d be awful old.  He’d be pretty old now.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Yeah, must be maybe some relatives.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:  He was (inaudible) at that time.  If he was ten years older than I was at that time, he would seem like an old man to me.  But…&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	Well, I think I’ve got enough.  Unless you want to -- is there anything you can –&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	No.&#13;
&#13;
RICK:	I’ve got plenty.  And if you think of something, give me a call.&#13;
&#13;
GORDAN:	Things just, you know, just kind of come to mind as you go along.&#13;
&#13;
END OF RECORDING</text>
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